Lord Sewel
Main Page: Lord Sewel (Non-affiliated - Life peer)Houses of Parliament: Education Centre
Lord Sewel Excerpts
Lord Flight (Con)
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare an interest in that my wife is a Westminster councillor.
The Chairman of Committees (Lord Sewel)
My Lords, the House Committee has informed the commission that the House of Lords will not contribute to the capital costs of the demountable education centre, estimated to be more than £6 million, on grounds of value for money. The House Committee has serious concerns about health and safety and has requested a risk assessment of the proposed access routes, which is expected to be conducted before the Easter Recess. We remain committed to the provision of an education service, as opposed to the specific building.
Lord Flight
My Lords, as well as the objections of the House Committee, the Royal Parks Board, which owns Victoria Tower Gardens, made strong objections to the House of Commons Commission but was overruled by the Secretary of State of the DCLG. The City of Westminster planning committee was divided 3:3 with very strong objections being made, but the chairman gave his casting vote in favour, contrary to convention. Local residents are objecting strongly as no notices of the planning proposal were posted in adjacent residential areas. Above all, Victoria Tower Gardens was created as an open space more than 100 years ago to give a setting to the House of Lords building. Surely it would be a grave mistake to build on nearly a quarter of it in a style that is not sympathetic to that of the Palace of Westminster. Has the House Committee any powers to enable this project to be reconsidered, or at least delayed?
The Chairman of Committees
My Lords, in this instance the House of Lords has no powers to ask the House of Commons to think again. However, we are concerned about the health and safety issues and access routes, and we requested a full study to be undertaken. Ultimately it is the Clerk of the Parliaments, as corporate officer, who is responsible for health and safety on the Lords part of the Parliamentary Estate and he will need to decide whether he feels that the proposed routes are safe.
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope (LD)
Does not the Chairman of Committees agree that the work done by the education and outreach department is extremely important and deserves our support? Will he confirm to the House that the Information Committee has been actively advocating a facility of this kind for at least seven years? Is not the real risk that this institution will become increasingly irrelevant in future? Why? Because so little is understood about the excellent work that is done here.
The Chairman of Committees
I thank the noble Lord for his question because it enables me to underline the complete commitment of this House and the House Committee to the work of the Education Service. Many Peers take that upon themselves as active participants in the outreach programme going to schools. It is true that the original, if you like, en principe or in principle decision—there is a subtle difference between the two—was made in 2007. However, that was a different world.
Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)
My Lords, will the Chairman of Committees indicate to those carrying out the risk assessment that we do not want a fudge? We want a proper risk assessment which takes into account the fact that it is proposed that tens of thousands of children will be required to pass through to Black Rod’s Garden from Victoria Tower Gardens through what is effectively now a builder’s yard, and which will remain a builder’s yard throughout the restoration and renewal programme.
The Chairman of Committees
The noble Lord makes a very strong point of which the House Committee is well aware. That is the reason why it has asked for a risk assessment to be carried out. I have utter confidence that it will be a thorough and robust risk assessment.
Baroness Boothroyd (CB)
My Lords, would it not be appropriate for a well chosen delegation from this House to see the House of Commons Commission on this issue?
Lord Elton (Con)
My Lords, can the Minister broaden his Answer a little to take in the aesthetic content of this problem? Who has the dominant voice there? What is the role of English Heritage? How has it come to be accepted without further discussion in this House?
The Chairman of Committees
My Lords, it is fair to say that in planning issues, under which I include the aesthetic dimension, the key player is Westminster City Council. Having dealt with the internal decision-making of your Lordships’ House for some time, which is on occasion somewhat Byzantine, I do not wish to speculate on the internal decision-making of Westminster City Council.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
So, my Lords, it would appear that there is something to be said for health and safety. Will the Chairman of Committees convey to the Clerk of the Parliaments that this House will be right behind him when he comes to make that decision?
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)
My Lords, was not an alternative site suggested at 1 Parliament Street? Why has that not been considered?
The Chairman of Committees
That is absolutely true. The position of the House Committee was that in the relatively short term—and this demountable building will be in operation for, at the most, 10 years—it would be better for the permanent solution to be part of the restoration and renewal plans and that, in the mean time, it seemed to us that provision was capable of being made within the existing Parliamentary Estate, and particularly 1 Parliament Street, but that was not acceptable to the House of Commons.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)
My Lords, following up on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, none of us is against people having access to this building and appreciating its aesthetic status, but is it not rather perverse to seek to damage that status in pursuit of the education which people are coming for?