Health and Social Care Bill

Lord Sentamu Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

I think that that point comes through loud and clear from this debate. I note what the noble Baroness said about what goes into the Bill or in regulation. She will know, from her experience of government, that generally speaking you do not put this sort of thing into the Bill. However, I take on board very much what she said about regulation, and I will take that back to the department.

The noble Baroness rightly focused on the joint strategic needs assessment and analysis of the current and future health and social care needs of an area. This would include the health and social care needs that are alcohol-harm related. Health and well-being boards would be able to involve people as necessary. As I said, noble Lords have made a very strong case for tackling alcohol abuse, which is very much economically and socially driven by the changes that underlie why this has come about. I have no doubt whatever that this issue will continue to dominate our debates, whether over regulation or over the Secretary of State’s mandate. This is a difficult area to tackle, as we know and as the previous Government knew, and it is best tackled as a cross-party attempt.

If only putting such matters into the Bill was a panacea. However, I am sure that the noble Baroness recognises that that is not the case. We realise that a range of measures must be taken, and I can assure the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, that we constantly review the effectiveness of what we do. If we did not, I am sure that noble Lords would ensure that we did. I hope, therefore, that the noble Baroness will agree to withdraw her amendment.

[The Archbishop of York]

As the Minister resumes her seat, I would ask: if the matter is so serious, what is the problem with changing the word from “may” to “must”? What difficulty does that bring? Seeing the seriousness of the matter, why do the Government continue to say, “We will watch this”, “We will do this”, or “There will be a review of this”? This is a very simple amendment. I would have thought that they could, for once, admit and accept that the amendment be inserted, instead of postponing for some future thing. What is the real problem? I have not heard an answer to why “may” must remain and “must” must not be inserted.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff]

I am extremely grateful to the most reverend Primate for that very eloquent and sensible interjection at this stage. I know that, in responding, the Minister has tried to be reassuring, but I note that she said that the scale of the problem is such that it would be astonishing if it was not addressed.

The Minister also said that it would not be a panacea to put it into the Bill, and there I disagree because it is not a panacea putting things in legislation. We have to protect the children growing up in this country who are abused through alcohol-related harm. They are bereaved by the deaths of their parents through alcohol. They are becoming the next victims of excessive misuse of alcohol. To do that, we have to put things into the Bill. We have seatbelt legislation, which has dramatically decreased the number of children who die in road accidents. We have legislation about smoking in public places, which has dramatically decreased smoking. In Wales, we are actively looking at smoking in confined places and at legislation on domestic abuse, precisely because of the alcohol-fuelled domestic abuse problem that is escalating, as my noble friend Lord Wigley said earlier.

I am most grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. The call for something in relation to general practitioners has been overwhelming from several noble Lords. I remind the House that secondary care is being evermore squeezed—squeezed until the pips squeak—and is taking a hit for the failure of alcohol-misuse control in our communities. That is where massive expenditure is incurred. It all seems to come together and it seems as though that is the final sump. The financial hit alone deprives other patients with other conditions from being looked after properly.

I shall not divide the Committee on this today, but I say to the Government that the failure of the Ministry of Justice to bring in pilots to control excessive drinking and drunkenness in our city centres, through allowing sentencing schemes for magistrates, has strengthened my resolve. Unless we get something in the Bill, all the strategies and persuasion in the world will not turn around this ever-increasing toll—the graph goes up and up. At this stage, I shall withdraw the amendment but I shall certainly return to it on Report. I hope that the Minister and the Bill team will engage in some constructive discussions as it would be much better for everyone to reach a compromise on this rather than to have to divide the House.