Postal Services Bill

Lord Selsdon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Selsdon]

My Lords, I think that I have to admit that I am standing here today only because of the Post Office. As a hereditary Peer, I have to recognise that a peerage was conferred on our family probably entirely because my grandfather was Postmaster-General, although I was later elected here. It is strange that you should have an affection for things that your ancestors have done. Before this debate, rather than going to the Library again and reading all the regular documentation, I read through the 365 entries in Hansard where my grandfather, as the longest serving Postmaster-General in history, had to deal with things. I looked first and foremost at Postmasters-General. They all had a charter. What it said was:

“We do by these Presents give and grant unto the said”—

in my case—

“Sir William Mitchell-Thomson full power and authorities to execute all the powers of any Act now in force or which shall hereafter be in force”.

In my grandfather’s case, I do not think that it was ever rescinded, so I have to feel that I may have some legal obligation to take the powers offered by this Bill. I will probably look at that with an international lawyer. However, today I shall be supporting not the Government—because, quite frankly, of this strange coalition agreement; I have considered forming a Select Committee to scrutinise the coalition agreement—but my noble friend Lady Wilcox, for whom I have great admiration. She is without doubt the best person to be in charge in this event.

As my noble friend will know, the greatest number of questions asked of my grandfather related to post offices in Cornwall: why there were not three deliveries a day, why there should not be more post offices, why a letter posted in Padstow should not arrive in Tre—something beginning with T—within so many hours. So I had a look and thought, what is the change now that we are introducing a Bill? First, however, I should say that this has been the best debate that I have listened to for a long time. I wish that all the other stuff that has happened over the past few days had been put down at the bottom of the pile. I was the one who also supported the Isle of Wight, which also should have more post offices.

I have had dealings in the communications world—and do not forget that the Postmaster-General was in charge of absolutely every form of communication, including the telephones, the cables under the Atlantic and so on. I think that we should bring back the role of Postmaster-General. Perhaps I would apply. Perhaps the Minister can tell me who the current Postmaster-General is. Is he part of BIS? All the names get changed. All these mnemonics that I cannot understand should go out of the window. The thing about modern technology is that Cornwall, Wylye or anywhere else, even Egypt, is only a button-press away. Distances no longer apply if you are using the latest technology. You therefore have to say on the one hand, is it not wonderful that Royal Mail still has a good image for security, trust and confidence? Is it not wonderful that each post office sub-postmaster also has an image and a reputation? All they are lacking is turnover and facilities. You have to look at what could be done. What could be done has already been suggested today, but the real opportunity lies not in following the path but in looking anew. Of course you have to deal with the £9 billion pension deficit, but practically every company in the land has ended up with enormous, great pension deficits. You have to wipe things out and to some extent to start again. The worry about that word “privatisation”—I hate every word that ends in -ation—is that it is the wrong image, the wrong thought.

The Post Office and everything that goes with it is a public service, no matter who owns it. It is an essential part of any institution. Without it, you can have revolution; communication is everything. I was trying to think of how we could change it around another way. I thought: let us look at what starts new businesses. We used to call them enterprise zones. Perhaps every post operation should be an enterprise zone. Perhaps the tax allowance system should apply in every regional area. That could provide benefits. Perhaps those who invest in it could do so tax-free with pension money.

I had all sorts of thoughts about communication. I am secretary to the Parliamentary Space Committee, and I rang up a few of my friends and said, “I want two satellites that will provide instant communication for all the sub-post offices and post offices around the country”. The reply was: “No problem, my dear friend. It’s easy”. They could have a little station in each of their operations, where old Mrs So and So who wants to be able to talk to her grandchildren can go in, press a button and there it is, without having to sub-contract or to try to learn some of the modern communication systems that we have here.

Your Lordships are pretty advanced in a way; perhaps 50 per cent of you know how to use the internet properly. The Government make an automatic assumption. You press a button and you have sent out a document showing the Prime Minister shaking hands in a coloured environment, but you find that the time to download it is not there. “Am I meant to vote?”. You do not understand. You then watch people trying to use their new system without knowing whether it is proper or correct. It is somehow an educational problem.

For me, the post office structure is a simple matter. It has an unknown value; you cannot put a capital value on it. If you privatise it, you move very quickly around the historical route. You find that various investment banks suggest to foreign investors that here is a reliable cash flow that can be used to hypothecate certain debt so that they can come in and buy the business out of the country’s own money, probably disposing of it at some sort of profit at a later date. These are what you often call financial instruments, but most of the privatisations in this country have ended up in foreign ownership. That might not matter, but most foreign ownership, with the exception of the United States, is not English-language anyway.

We have the great advantage that the English language is spoken by 3 billion people around the world. We should look at our postal system’s ability to communicate directly. Historically, it was part of the empire. We should not forget that the Postmaster-General was also responsible for laying the cables that went off across the Atlantic and to Australia. We had that technology, and in microtechnology and robotics, and particularly in space, we are one of those very advanced nations.

I commend the Bill but not its details. I commend the Minister because I know that she is one of those people who will fight her way through any of the obstacles that come up. If noble Lords have nothing better to do one day, I will arrange for them to have direct internet access to all the great speeches made by Postmasters-General over time.

We have too much direct mail and undesired communication. I have calculated how many tonnes and the cost of what we have to throw away. We worry, too, about our identity. We are buying more and more shredders to put our names and addresses into so that no one can send us things. All I would say is that this is a worrying aspect, because security is critical and Royal Mail probably has an image that could stand that security.

I end by referring to a question that was put to my grandfather, the Postmaster-General:

“whether he proposes to take any action to stop the sending of moneylenders' circulars by post?”.

The reply was:

“Under existing legislation I am not in a position to stop such circulars in the post. A Bill for amending the law so as to prohibit the sending of unsolicited circulars of the kind has been before the House”.—[Official Report, Commons, 16/12/1925; col. 1455W.]

That was in 1925.