Immigration Bill

Lord Patel Excerpts

Wednesday 12th March 2014 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Patel]

58: Clause 33, page 27, line 24, leave out from “charge” to end of line 25

[Lord Patel (CB)]

My Lords, after Monday’s debate, I do not think this should take very long. Amendment 58 relates to Clause 33, on immigration health charges, and specifically to subsection (3)(b), which says:

“An order under this section may in particular … specify the amount of any charge (and different amounts may be specified for different purposes)”.

My amendment would remove the words in brackets. As I understand it, we already have the defined charges of £150 for students and £200 for other immigrants.

In the debate we had on Monday, I asked the Minister:

“Once that levy has been paid, it will allow them”—

we were speaking about students—

“to access all health services. Is that quite clear?”.

The answer the Minister gave was:

“Yes, that is exactly right. They will have the same access to health services as is available to a permanent resident”.—[Official Report, 10/3/14; col. 1573.]

Later in our discussions I said:

“As I understood it, I thought he said that once the health surcharge—let us say it is £200—is paid, for the duration of their legitimate stay in this country all health services will be available to them”.

In his reply, the Minister corrected me. He said:

“It is a per annum charge, so if they are here for three years and are not a student it will be three times £200”.

I accept that. But he went on to say:

“But yes, that is exactly right”.—[Official Report, 10/3/14; col. 1574.]

That is, there will be no further charges and all health services will be available to whoever has paid the levy or the health service charge—students or other immigrants.

In that case, I do not know why there is a need to have the words,

“and different amounts may be specified for different purposes”.

We need to know what these purposes are and whether there will be extra charges. If there are, what will they be for, and what will be the tariff? That is my amendment. I beg to move.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, when we discussed this previously, I, too, asked my noble friend the Minister about the relationship of this provision to Clause 33(4), which says that,

“the Secretary of State must … have regard to the range of health services that are likely to be available free of charge to persons who have been given immigration permission”.

I said that that implied that certain services provided by the health service were not going to be free of charge to these people. My noble friend tried to reassure me on this point but it is there in the Bill. It seems inconsistent with the repeated declarations that were made by my noble friend the Minister—which the noble Lord, Lord Patel, has just quoted—that once you have paid this levy, you are free to access all health services provided by the NHS. If that is the case, Clause 33(4) should be deleted from the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

There is nothing sinister here. This is not a Machiavellian move by the Government. It is to bring in a differential between the charge for students and the charge for ordinary migrants, which I am sure that noble Lords applaud. That is the objective. I reassure my noble friend that I will take her advice and write to Noble Lords on this point. I was here for Third Reading of the Pensions Bill, when mention was made of the weight of paper with which noble Lords have been bombarded concerning that Bill. I fear that we may be getting into the same situation here, but I hope that noble Lords will understand that, in technical matters such as this, it is often easier to put things in writing, because I can be more explicit.

[Lord Patel]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken. I have a few points to make. First, the Minister said that the subsections of Clause 33 were very carefully drafted. Listening to the debate, I think that there will be a collective opinion in the House today that that is not the case. I am pleased that the Minister said that he will look at the provisions to see whether the purpose for which they have been written can be clarified. I look forward to new amendments.

I am much clearer now about three things. First, once the health charge, or the levy, is paid, currently, for all those who pay the levy, health services will be available to them free of charge, just the same as permanent citizens of this country. That bit is clear. The second thing clarified by the Minister—I thank him for doing that—is that the words,

“and different amounts may be specified for different purposes”,

do not refer to health service charges but to categories of immigrants or students who we allow to come to this country.

The third purpose is what the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, referred to in subsection (4), which does refer to health charges that might be brought in subsequently. In answer to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Willis, the Minister was quite clear that they do not apply to residents of this country and that the Government had no intention of using this as a backdoor way to bring in charges in the NHS for citizens of this country. The subsection refers to extra charges that the Government may introduce through legislation which will be brought to Parliament in the first instance. I hope that I am clear in what I understand and that that is what the Minister said.

On that basis, until we see the redrafted clauses, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 58 withdrawn.