Business and Planning Bill

Lord Paddick Excerpts

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 20th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 29, I will also speak to the other government amendments grouped with it and to which it relates. I thank noble Lords who have scrutinised the alcohol licensing measures in this Bill and, in particular, those who have made points regarding late opening hours. The Government have listened to and understood the concerns around the possibility of associated noise nuisance and anti-social behaviour occurring when a late licence is in existence.

Taken together, Amendments 29, 31, 32, 33, 34, 36, 38 and 44 introduce a standard cessation time of 11 pm to operators trading under the new off-sales permissions. They also limit the ability of those premises which are licensed after midnight to resume off-sales at that time, restricting their ability to do so until they open for business the following day. With these amendments, new permissions will apply only until 11 pm or until the current licensing hours for that premises end, whichever is earlier.

We have also tabled Amendment 45, which addresses those premises that may have restrictions on their licences that do not permit the use of a beer garden or other outdoor space beyond a certain hour. Amendment 45 will limit the ability of a premises to carry out off-sales under the new permissions where they are already limited from selling alcohol for consumption in an outdoor area of the premises. That is, if a premises cannot use its outdoor area beyond a particular time, it will not be permitted to carry out off-sales beyond that time under the new permission either. This amendment is a further safeguard to help to ensure that this measure works for local communities and not against them.

I thank again the noble Lords with whom I have engaged inside and outside of this Chamber, who have helped to bring forward these constructive amendments that the Government have tabled today. I look forward to further debate. I beg to move Amendment 29 and look forward to responding to the other amendments in this group.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 40, in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Pinnock, and to the other amendments in this group. For the benefit of those who may have just joined us, let me summarise. The Government have got themselves into a right two and eight. Amendments 29 to 41 deal with bars, pubs and restaurants that have licences to sell alcohol on their premises and which will temporarily be allowed to sell alcohol for consumption off the premises as result of this Bill.

The Bill does not redefine the area covered by pavement licences as being part of the licensed premises. As a consequence, drinks served within the area covered by pavement licences will be off-sales. To enable alcohol, such as glasses of wine and beer, to be served at tables within pavement-licensed areas, the Government have had to lift the current restriction on alcohol off-sales being only in sealed containers. The unintended consequence of lifting this restriction is to allow the unrestricted sale of alcohol from these premises in wine and beer glasses, for example, to people who can then walk down the street, drinking where and when they want.

Local residents do not want people drinking outside their homes, away from licensed premises, with the potential for disorder, violence and urinating in the street, particularly late at night. In addition, broken straight beer glasses can cause horrifying injuries, whether when deliberately broken and used as a weapon or when people fall on to broken glass.

This brings me to the amendments. The Liberal Democrats’ Committee amendment, which sought to restrict off-sales to no later than 11 pm, has been given effect by government Amendments 29, 31 to 34 and 36 in this group, which obviously we support. I thank the Minister for securing this—albeit limited—concession. However, these amendments do not prevent street drinking away from pavement-licensed areas and neither does Labour’s Amendment 39 in this group, albeit that it restricts it to street drinking from plastic cups.

Our Amendment 40 restricts off-sales in open containers to pavement-licensed areas, beer gardens and the like, but also supports businesses by allowing alcohol to be taken away from restaurants, pubs and bars in sealed containers. If the restaurant or pub is too full when you get there—because of social distancing, for example—it allows you to take alcohol home from those premises in an unopened bottle, can or other sealed container, as currently applies to existing off- licences, supporting hard-pressed businesses as a result. Amendment 41, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Stowell of Beeston, does not allow alcohol to be taken away from the premises under any circumstances, which would hinder trade.

In a meeting with Ministers last week, the Government agreed to discuss Amendment 40 with us before Report but they have failed to do so. I explained in Committee why existing provisions and the provisions in the Bill are inadequate to deal with street drinking and disorder. As a consequence, I give notice that I intend to divide the House on Amendment 40.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The noble Baroness, Lady Stowell of Beeston, has withdrawn, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Mann.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Paddick]

40: Clause 11, page 9, line 34, at end insert—
“(5A) Where subsections (4) and (5) apply, off-sales must be made in—(a) an aluminium or tin-plated steel can;(b) a sealed glass container; or(c) a plastic container.(5B) Subsection (5A) does not apply where the sale of alcohol is for consumption—(a) in accordance with a pavement licence as defined by Part 1 of this Act; or(b) in an outdoor space directly attached to the premises and under the control of the licensee.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment would prevent the sale of alcohol off-premises in a beer glass or other container that could easily be broken and used as a weapon.

[Lord Paddick]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Balfe and Lord Bhatia, and my noble friends Lord Shipley and Lady Pinnock for supporting the amendment. To answer the question from the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, provided drinking takes place outside a pub within the curtilage of the premises—that is, on the licensed plan—it is legal. Once it goes beyond that, drinking in open containers is illegal. This is to prevent people walking down the street and consuming alcohol in pint glasses or wine glasses without restriction, which this allows.

The Minister said the appropriate place for this to be addressed is in guidance, not legislation. With the greatest respect, that is complete and utter nonsense. The rules around current off-licences are set down in legislation. The legislation says that off-licences are not allowed, in law, to sell alcohol in open containers. She talks about an effective and long-standing regime. The effective and long-standing regime to prevent the sort of disorder the amendment seeks to prevent is exactly the same as it is for off-licences.

I do not know whether the Minister has seen the irresponsible participants in street parties and block parties that the police have had to deal with during lockdown. Without this amendment, we will see even more of that sort of thing. Therefore, I wish to test the opinion of the House.