UK-EU Summit

Lord Newby Excerpts

Wednesday 21st May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for repeating the Statement. I say at the outset that we share her concern about the humanitarian situation in Gaza, and I think everyone in this House would wish for a peaceful and swift resolution.

I have been around long enough to know that when a Prime Minister, of any party, tells you a deal is a triumph, you need to look pretty fast at the small print. In this latest case we do not yet have most of that, which is actually quite a problem, but the basics are clear: EU control of our food standards restored; Britain as a rule-taker, not a rule-maker; the ECJ back; dynamic alignment back; and, frankly, our fishermen sold all the way to the Dogger Bank in a December gale. All this for a packet of sausages that the French do not actually want. The promise is that we might—potentially, where appropriate, is what the communiqué actually says—be able to go on a summer holiday through passport e-gates. That is something the UK has continued to give EU citizens ever since Brexit. Why did they have to give up so much to get something that we in this country, who have real good will to our European friends, have given to EU citizens for decades?

I have defended some dud deals at that Dispatch Box in my time, and some good ones. You get to sniff them out—and this one is a dud. It reminds me of some other negotiations with the EU in the past: surrender all the key principles first, then try to negotiate the details later when your leverage is gone. So, having been told in the Labour manifesto that there will be no freedom of movement, the Government have a proposed scheme that could see tens of thousands of working-age migrants come to Britain, potentially with the ability to settle and bring dependants. Can the noble Baroness confirm whether reports that the scheme may be capped at 100,000 people are correct, and will she say what upper age limit the UK is seeking for the scheme?

The deal has again made Britain a rule-taker, leaving our farmers subject to rules made in Paris and enforced in Brussels, while they have no voice at the table. What assessment have Ministers made of the impact of EU regulations and dynamic alignment on the viability of family farms in this country?

Do the Government understand that autonomy on food standards is vital to the prospects of our being leaders in precision breeding, for which we only recently legislated? From being world leaders in this industry of the future, we will be tied to move at the pace acceptable to the most resistant bureaucrat in Brussels.

We have also agreed to send new money to the EU for the right to sell to our neighbours defence equipment they desperately need, though it is still unclear what we will get for it and what we will have to give. It is disappointing that, in the face of the greatest challenge to European security for generations, we are haggling on the price of co-operation with would-be allies.

Perhaps the worst case is that of our fishermen. Personally, I was unhappy in 2019 when we delayed for five years full control of our waters, but our fisher folk had reason to expect that things would then improve, and so they did. Replying to a Question from my noble friend Lord Roborough just seven weeks ago, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, told the House that

“after the end of the fisheries adjustment period set out in the trade and co-operation agreement, European Union access to UK waters … becomes a matter for annual renegotiation”.—[Official Report, 31/3/25; col. 8.]

We agreed with the noble Baroness when she said she would work tirelessly to achieve that. However, along with our fishing fleet, she was torpedoed by a late-night call from President Macron. From working for annual agreements—something given to the Faroe Islands but not, it seems, to Scotland—the Prime Minister turned tail on a sixpence and ordered a 12-year surrender of our fishing rights.

There is something of a pattern. The US deal was good start with the US, and I welcome the Prime Minister’s achievement there. President Trump said that after the deal was done, he picked up the phone to the Prime Minister and boasted, “We got a billion dollars more for the US”. One late night call and they cave in. I beg the noble Baroness: when a deal is being discussed, please get the Prime Minister to bed early. Heaven knows what time the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General woke him up to sell him the ludicrous Chagos deal.

Will the noble Baroness set out what control the UK will have over quota-setting and marine protected areas in our territorial and EEZ waters? Will she explain why some of the poorest communities in our country should pay for 12 years the price for the Government declaring a triumph over well-chilled wine at a summit? On energy, just when it seemed some common sense was breaking out at the extremes of net-zero policy, we have entered the EU emissions scheme and cast away energy autonomy. If we want to be a leader in the vital industry of AI, we need large quantities of cheap, reliable, home-grown energy delivered by a UK Government. How will this help?

The Labour manifesto said on Europe that it would not reopen

“the divisions of the past”,

yet instead of looking to the future of a free, fast-developing, independent economy, it has reset us to a misremembered, hyper-regulated past where in some of the key industries of the future Britain must again move at the rate of the slowest in the slowest growing economic bloc in the world. This is a bad deal and, as my right honourable friend the leader of the Opposition has said, it should be ripped up, or perhaps used to wrap up some of our dwindling supplies of fish and chips.

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for repeating yesterday’s Statement. I begin by associating these Benches with the sentiments expressed in the Statement on Gaza. Recent Israeli action is indeed horrific and requires a response. Yesterday’s actions by the Foreign Secretary are welcome, but the most obvious way in which we can demonstrate our further support for the Palestinian people is to support their demand for statehood. Can the noble Baroness confirm whether this option is under active consideration by the Government?

On Europe, the joint statement issued by the UK and EU begins by pointing out that this was the first UK-EU summit since Brexit, and this is the context against which the outcome should be judged. It was, of course, a real dereliction of duty for the previous Government to turn their back so comprehensively on our largest and closest partner. A reset in our relations is long overdue in the national interest.

Perhaps the biggest achievement of the summit was that it represented a milestone in rebuilding trust between the UK and the EU. For too long, too many in British politics have poured scorn on the EU while placing their hopes on replacing ties with Europe with countries which are now run by unreliable allies. The EU has noticed this and has been understandably wary about treating with the UK as a result. Against this background, the specific outcomes of the summit are to be welcomed, whether on freer trade in food products, energy, security, defence, or youth mobility, and I am sure pet owners will also be cheering to the rafters the return of the pet passport.

It will surprise no one, however, that we on these Benches see these agreements as but small, tentative first steps towards restoring a much deeper, more productive relationship with the EU. The progress on veterinary and plant health requirements is particularly welcome as it will lead to immediate benefits to the food and agriculture sectors; and, as the Statement made clear, it has even been welcomed by the Scottish salmon industry. The return of frictionless trade in these areas is one of the main reasons why yesterday’s deal will add 0.2% to GDP.

However, for firms in every other productive sector seeking to export to the EU, the deal does nothing to make that easier. Before yesterday’s deal we were set to lost 4% of GDP as a result of Brexit. Now we are set to lose 3.8%. This shows how much more there is to do and why movement towards rejoining the customs union and single market is still urgently required.

The commitment to a youth mobility scheme and reassociation with Erasmus+ I welcome, but it is vague as to timing and detailed content. Can the Minister say what the Government’s aspirations are for concluding these new arrangements so that students and young people more generally can benefit?

The agreements on travelling artists, short-term business mobility and mutual recognition of professional qualifications are also welcome but are even vaguer. Given that agreement in these areas would be a clear win-win for both sides, it is surprising and disappointing that more progress has not been achieved. Can the Government say what they envisage happening next to bring about these much-needed easements?

The new UK-EU security and defence partnership is also welcome. At the heart of this is the €150 billion defence equipment procurement fund. The UK will now negotiate to become a participant in this programme. This could significantly benefit the UK defence industry, but there are no details. When can we expect some? In defence and security, and in the other areas covered by yesterday’s agreements, new institutional ties with the EU will give the UK, for the first time in almost a decade, a formal route to influence EU thinking. This is no small gain.

Taken together, yesterday’s agreements, far from representing a surrender of British interests, are an overdue reassertion of them. This view is shared by the British public, who now decisively support closer ties with the EU. The Government now need to build on the progress they made yesterday. That will make the UK more prosperous, more influential and more secure. The sooner and more decisively they do it, the better.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for their contributions on the situation in Gaza. It is dire; it gets worse by the day. Some will have heard Tom Fletcher from the United Nations on the radio yesterday speaking about his fear of the number of babies who could die in the next 48 hours if aid does not get in quick enough. I understand that a very limited amount of aid went in yesterday. There are lorries at the border now waiting to take more aid in. There are containers available, and discussions are ongoing to get that aid in. My noble friend Lord Collins will be repeating the Statement in the House tomorrow so there will be the opportunity to ask further questions on that.

I felt that this debate ran true to form. On the Conservative Benches the feeling was, “You’ve gone too far, it’s terrible”. On the Liberal Democrat Benches it was, “You haven’t gone far enough”. I feel that we have pitched ourselves in the right place. It was an uncharitable and, unfortunately, predictable response from the noble Lord, Lord True. He had questions and criticisms on e-passport use and asked why the deal was so bad last time. He should ask his own party that because the deal was done by his Government.

I will go through some of the issues raised. The noble Lord, Lord True, asked about the emissions trading system. It is a ridiculous situation that British businesses—a trade worth, I think, £7 billion—are at risk of paying what is, in effect, a levy to the EU. That has gone. That has to be in the interests of energy prices and British industry. That money was going straight from UK exporters into the EU budget. There is a better way of doing this. This streamlines the regulatory barriers. CO₂ storage is a growth industry in the UK, with enormous potential for investment and jobs. Linking the ETS removes the disincentives for EU emitters to store CO₂ in the UK. That makes our industry far more competitive. That is an important point.

On the SPS agreement, I was surprised that the noble Lord, Lord True, was not supportive of it, and I am grateful for the comments from the noble Lord, Lord Newby. It is a huge improvement, and it will have a huge impact on Northern Ireland. The original Brexit deal tried to find a fudge to make this work, with the Windsor Framework. It was a terrible situation where we even had problems exporting between GB and Northern Ireland.

I do not know whether other noble Lords do, but I remember Boris Johnson talking to a group of businesspeople, when he said, “If there are any forms to be filled in, you come and see me; you send them to me”. I suggest that, if they had, he might have disappeared under the pile of forms sent to him. We were speaking to a businessperson the other night who said that, for one consignment, his company filled in 2,000 forms. That is damaging to our industry, and it is damaging to our exports. While those forms were being checked and more forms had to be filled in, produce was rotting at the borders. I know that Members across the House have found this to be an issue in their own businesses. It is absolutely right that we have taken action to deal with that.

The noble Lord, Lord True, questioned how long the deal on e-passports is going to take, and suggested that it is not going to happen. Negotiations with EU member countries are starting immediately to make sure that it does happen to protect and support those in the UK who are travelling. Anyone who has been on their way back from a holiday or business travel, joined a very long queue, and seen others with EU passports wandering through and British citizens not being able to, will be pleased to see that as well.

These are very important agreements. If it helps the noble Lord, in 2024, £14.1 billion of UK agri-food exports went to EU countries. That has a huge impact on British businesses. The noble Lord also went on about dynamic alignment. It might be helpful if I said something about divergence and dynamic alignment, and the rule-taking issue. Research undertaken this May by UK in a Changing Europe showed that the UK has done very little to diverge from EU regulations. That means that British businesses have been sticking to those rules, because it is in their interest since they are still exporting, but the barriers and difficulties they have faced in exporting have had a huge impact on their businesses. The lived reality is that we have had very little benefit from that, which is why this deal has been welcomed by so many businesses. In our trade deal with the United States, we made it clear that we were not prepared to accept, for example, chlorinated chicken, because it would have a detrimental effect on our farmers, who have invested in higher welfare standards. There are always issues that come along on that point.

I probably do not have time to respond to all the questions, but I want particularly to come back to fishing. On the point that the noble Lord, Lord True, raised about the European Court, we will have a role in shaping new rules. No rules will apply in the UK unless they go to Parliament and get its agreement, and any disputes will be resolved through international arbitration and agreement. Where the CJEU has a role is with regards to the interpretation of EU law.

Briefly on fishing, the fishing industry exports 72% of its produce to the EU. It will benefit hugely from the SPS agreement, which will make a difference. Our shellfish people have not been able to export anything. Saying that we can now export shellfish will have a huge impact and be beneficial to those farmers in Scotland, Devon and other parts of the country who produce shellfish, as well to our salmon farmers. On the year-on-year agreement, there was obviously a wish to get a better deal, but it was highly unlikely because we had not reset the relationship. The 12-year agreement provides some certainty, and alongside it is a £350 million investment for coastal areas and the fishing industry to help them invest in technology and grow their businesses.

I think this is an excellent deal. It deals with defence, security and the things that matter to the British people. It takes us a step forward, and away from the argument of Brexit or no Brexit. On the question from noble Lord, Lord Newby, about why we do not further, there will be annual summits to look at these issues; he mentioned some of them. On the customs union, if we were in that union, we would not have achieved the deals with India and the US. People said we could not do it; they said, “You will never get a deal with the EU and the US”. We have done it.