Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Lord Murphy of Torfaen Excerpts

Thursday 7th April 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to take part in this debate and, as always, to listen to the words of the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, who opened it with great knowledge, as he always does. It has been a wise, informed and useful debate, held against the background of disease and war, and our leaving Europe—all difficult issues that have affected Northern Ireland. We need to reflect and think about the relevance of the Good Friday agreement in this new context, like the noble Lord, Lord Bew, said. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, will recall that the agreement itself says that you can review it from time to time. It was reviewed in St Andrews with the agreement there and in other agreements, so it was not meant to be set in stone for 25 years. It was meant to ensure that, over the years, it would reflect society as it changed.

What is not changing, and cannot be changed, is the principle of consent. That is the absolute bedrock of what happened in Northern Ireland with all these different agreements. That is crucial: the people of Northern Ireland must decide their future themselves. It is not for the British Government or the Irish Government to decide; it is for the people of Northern Ireland.

As some of your Lordships will recall, the Labour Party’s policy until the late 1990s was for a united Ireland with consent. Tony Blair decided to change that, because you could not possibly act as a referee in the talks that came later if you were that one-sided— in that case, for a united Ireland. When Mo Mowlam, myself and others chaired the talks in Northern Ireland we decided to ensure that we were absolutely neutral in what we would say and do in that capacity.

In Wales, where I live and which I used to represent, I am a passionate unionist. I want the union to continue in Wales, Scotland and England. In Northern Ireland, it is a matter for the Northern Irish people to decide. At the same time, while Northern Ireland remains in the United Kingdom—who knows for how long that will be; the 1.8 million people in Northern Ireland must decide that for themselves—it must benefit from all the things the rest of the United Kingdom benefits from by being a member of it. Our National Health Service is just one example, but there are others too, which enormously benefit the people of Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom.

There has also been a change in landscape, of course. In 1998, when the Good Friday agreement was set up, the United Kingdom was very different from today. We now live in a devolved United Kingdom. Scotland and Wales are devolved, and there is a movement to try to ensure there is more devolution in England itself. The noble Lord, Lord Dunlop, came up with his report and my own party is holding a commission with Gordon Brown on the future of the union. All these things mean that change is likely to come about to reflect the new position of a devolved United Kingdom. That principle of devolution, and the benefits that come with it, must also apply to Northern Ireland, which should have a properly devolved government with all the advantages Scotland, Wales and possibly parts of England will have.

It has been an interesting debate, but if there is one message, it is the message of change. We live in very turbulent times, and once these elections are over, the two Governments, the political parties and all of us who are interested in Northern Ireland should re-examine and re-think the agreement to ensure that, without going against any of its principles, it reflects the world of a quarter of a century later.