Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Bill

Lord Murphy of Torfaen Excerpts

Tuesday 12th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)]

My Lords, I support the Bill, which is very important, but before I comment on some of its clauses, as I look around your Lordships’ Chamber I see almost an action replay of 1998. So many Members of your Lordships’ House were with me and others when we discussed the Good Friday agreement back in the spring of 1998. We are all 20 or so years older, and I suppose we never thought that we would be discussing the same issues in this Chamber—but we are. Those noble Lords who were there will recall that at the very end of the afternoon of Good Friday 1998, the chairman of the talks, Senator George Mitchell, said that although the talks were over this was actually the beginning, not the end, of progress in Northern Ireland.

When I look back over the past 18 years at the different agreements that have been dealt with—the St Andrews agreement and all the others, and of course today the Stormont House agreement and the fresh start agreement—I see nothing wrong with that. I rather fancy that there will be more agreements for this House and the other place to consider in the months and years to come.

But today, of course, we are dealing with a specific Bill in front of us. A theme in all those agreements was the issue of continuing paramilitary activity. The deaths that Northern Ireland has witnessed over the past months are of course tragic, but they in no way compare in numbers to what occurred many years ago. But the fact is that paramilitary activity still exists in some form or another in Northern Ireland. Therefore, the two Governments agreeing to the Independent Reporting Commission is, I think, certainly the way forward. I hope that when the First Minister and Deputy First Minister look at the appointment of members to that commission they will bear in mind the fact—I am sure they will—that there has to be general consensus as to who should sit on it, otherwise it simply will not have the confidence of people in Northern Ireland.

I welcome the fact that there are new pledges of office for Ministers and Members of the Assembly. The Minister quite rightly pointed out that the Assembly itself will have to consider the issue of any sanctions that might be applied were those pledges to be broken.

A lot of the difficulties that Northern Ireland has faced over the past months have been because of disagreements over welfare. When I was the Minister for finance in Northern Ireland, I have to tell the House that I was perplexed that Northern Ireland still had the function that, effectively, the welfare legislation and details here in Great Britain could technically be different from those in Northern Ireland. In reality, they never were. I hope that, in the months ahead, the Assembly might consider looking at what is happening in Scotland with regard to welfare and see whether Northern Ireland could learn from the new welfare powers that the Scottish Parliament has so that they could look at it in a rather special way for Northern Ireland.

I am pleased, too, that the Assembly is looking at the number of its Members. I rather fancy that it will be a bit more scientific than the way that we decided it during the night of Maundy Thursday and the morning of Good Friday in 1998, when the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and others came to see me at about 3 am to decide how many Members of the Assembly there should be. We decided that six per parliamentary constituency was the answer. Looking back with hindsight, that was probably too many, but the Assembly will now decide that itself, as well as the number of departments of the Northern Ireland Executive. It is also very sensible that 14 days will now be given for Assembly Ministers to be allocated their portfolio.

The Good Friday agreement was not written in stone, in the sense that as the years went by, adaptions could take place and reviews could happen, so long as there was agreement generally among the political parties in Northern Ireland for such changes to be made.

It is a disappointment—the Minister has indicated why it is the case—that in the Bill there is no reference to the legacy issues in Northern Ireland and to dealing with the past. I do not think that Northern Ireland can finally be settled until we deal with those issues. Although some very good ideas came from the various discussions over the last two years—it is good that the Minister is going to discuss them with Members of this House over the next 24 hours—that issue has to be addressed. There is no question in my mind that the issue of victims and survivors, and of our communities in Northern Ireland, is dependent on how we can deal with the past.

I am glad to see in the Chamber the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, who, together with Mr Bradley, came up with some very interesting ideas in their report, together with the ideas that came from Ambassador Haass later on. There is a lot of work to be done, but I hope that that issue will be addressed as soon as possible.

We have, of course, an election in Northern Ireland in May, as we do in Scotland and in Wales. Everybody involved in politics in Northern Ireland knows that, in a way, political development is frozen until those elections are over because of the importance of fighting them. Every political party understands that; it is what democracy is about. But when those elections are over, there will be a number of years that are election-free in Northern Ireland. The opportunities that can then be given to the political leaders, political parties and others in Northern Ireland to look very carefully at the institutions and where we go will be invaluable.

There are, of course, obstacles in the way. The first comes only a month or so after those elections to the Northern Ireland Assembly and it is the referendum on our membership of the European Union. It is my firm belief that, were we to withdraw from membership, it would be of huge disadvantage to the people of the island of Ireland north and south. I have no doubt that our joint membership with the Republic of Ireland of the European Union meant that the peace process went more smoothly and developed in a way that it could not have done had we not both been members of the same club. I believe that the distribution of peace money among the different communities in Northern Ireland was pivotal in ensuring that relations between those communities improved. As far as I am concerned—although I understand that there will be different views in Northern Ireland—that is a huge issue which now faces specifically people in Northern Ireland.

That applies also to what happens in Scotland. I am deeply opposed to Scottish independence, but I have no doubt that the issue will be resurrected soon. If Scotland goes it alone and becomes independent, that could have serious consequences for Northern Ireland—as it will do for my own country of Wales. So these are difficulties which we face there.

One thing that struck me very dramatically when I was a Minister in Northern Ireland and then Secretary of State was that I had no right as a Member of Parliament for a Welsh constituency to rule in that place. Direct rule was infinitely and badly wrong. It should never have occurred, and I felt uneasy all the time at the fact that I had to take decisions on behalf of people who should be taking them themselves. So I welcome this Bill, because it means that we will continue to have the institutions up and running in Northern Ireland in a fresh way through a fresh start. We never want to return to those days where there was direct rule.

But there is a lot of thinking to be done in Northern Ireland in the years that are election free. We should harness academic thinking in Northern Ireland because there are many very good people there who can think about where we go. Let us look at civil society in general and at how people who are not necessarily directly involved in politics can help out in the way ahead. The Civic Forum never really took off in the way that the agreement thought it might do, but there is an opportunity there, too. Perhaps the most significant thing is to ensure that a new generation understands that they have a huge responsibility in ensuring the continuing prosperity and stability of Northern Ireland.

Eighteen years is a long time. It means that you would have to be in your mid or late 30s now to have understood when you were young what was happening in 1998. A whole generation has gone by, and the danger is that complacency can set in—that things can become too cosy and that people can become too cynical about politicians in Northern Ireland. All those things are bad, because, although we perhaps live in an age of anti-politics, Northern Ireland would not be where it is today had it not been for the risks that were taken by Northern Ireland politicians over the last 20 years in ensuring that we have a stable institution there.

So I hope that younger men and women will be attracted to the business of politics in Northern Ireland and will be able to take part in what I am sure will be a good future for all the people of Northern Ireland, irrespective of their religion, traditions or background.