Consumer Rights Bill

Lord Mitchell Excerpts

Monday 3rd November 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Mitchell (Lab)]

My Lords, I have not previously spoken on this Bill. I support Amendment 105B. If I never do anything else in your Lordships’ House, I must do that, because this payday loan issue has been quite beyond my comprehension. Starting three years ago, when nobody was paying any attention to it, and the Government, frankly, were quite indifferent, we have moved the debate on. I give the Government credit for changing their mind on this and being highly supportive, enabling us to get to the point that we have reached today.

I never expected the FCA to be so strong and definitive, and to introduce controls which have had the effect they have. Frankly, I thought that the authority would roll over, and I am really pleased that it has been successful. It is saying that within a year or so perhaps 95% of these payday lending companies will be withdrawing their services.

But the outstanding issue is the one of advertising. When I talk to people about payday lending, I will sometimes say something to them that they do not quite understand. It is that I have more regard for people who go into the pub to borrow 50 quid from some really nasty characters, knowing that if they do not pay it back, they are going to lose a kneecap or something like that. At least they know the name of the game. I am not backing it, but I am saying that that is how it was. What has happened is that today this kind of lending has become cool and sophisticated. You can have an app on your iPhone and suddenly it is part of the way of living for many people. There is no shame associated with it; it is just something that can easily be done, and the advertising element of it is quite important.

We have to understand that companies like Wonga have phenomenal sums of money to spend and they use the most sophisticated advertising they can to get to the people out there. I remember being told in correspondence I had with the trade association—and indeed I have heard Wonga say this—that the industry does not target children. It makes sure that there are no advertisements around children’s programmes. That is a typical approach on the part of Wonga, but it is a total lie. It is a lie because many families in this country have the television on all the time. I believe that the average family watches television for six hours a day. The TV is on when the kids come home from school and it is on in the holidays. They do not really pay attention to every programme, whether it is a children’s programme or not. If it is not a children’s programme, that is when the advertisements are aired, and children can see them. They see the puppets, as the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, mentioned, and they can sing the ditties. They think that it is tremendous fun. What children then do is put huge pressure on their parents, so that when a parent says, “You can’t have a new pair of trainers”, the answer is, “Wonga will give you the money for them”. That is the sort of pressure which continues to be exerted and it is why it is easy for people to get into this loan situation.

I have a Private Member’s Bill before your Lordships’ House. It is two pages long. This particular amendment is summarised in five lines. I think that it is probably as good as we can get—I think that it is really good in fact. I am very keen to support it and I encourage noble Lords to do the same.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I rise to speak in favour of Amendment 105B and the other amendments in this group. I spoke about this issue at Second Reading and I have not changed my mind about it, but I will try not to repeat the arguments and the statistics that other noble Lords have cited.

The quality of childhood is under attack from all sides: the sexualisation of childhood through scantily clad pop stars deliberately targeting the younger generation; the fear of paedophiles making parents reluctant to allow children the freedom that I enjoyed as a child when roaming over nearby fields with my friends; the intrusion of digital games and equipment, forcing out healthier childhood pursuits; and, unfortunately, cyberbullying via smartphones. All these conspire to put pressure on children so that what should be a carefree childhood is often turned into a race and a competition for the latest gadget or fashion garment.

During my children’s younger years, one of the more enjoyable activities during a busy day was to sit down with them and watch the children’s programmes that were on at lunchtime and again at their tea time. Many of these, especially the lunchtime ones, were cartoons and puppets. I am sure that many of us can remember the delights of “Postman Pat”, “Camberwick Green” or “Pigeon Street”—but I fear I show my age. While watching their favourite television programme, children should not be subjected to propaganda from high-cost consumer short-term credit companies or, as they are known, payday loan companies. As has been said, these adverts give the impression that applying for such a loan is commonplace, and that it will solve all your problems and be easy to repay. Alcohol and gambling are not advertised during children’s prime-time TV, so why are payday loans?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Jolly]

Nobody wants young children to grow up thinking that payday loans are the right way to go but we believe that currently there is a tough package of measures in place to ensure that vulnerable consumers are protected from inappropriate practices. I hope that the noble Lord will see fit to withdraw the amendment.

[Lord Mitchell]

I just want to make the point again that there is a difference between advertising that is directed at children and advertising that they just happen to see, but that really they are the same thing none the less. Children see them.

[Baroness Jolly]

Indeed. However, advertising of payday loans is less targeted towards children currently than it may have been in times past. There is also a larger issue here around parents helping children to understand. These adverts are shown in all houses, whether or not the parents have a problem with payday loans. There is an issue for parents to teach their children that this is not the way to go, even though for the majority of parents, that is not the case. However, the Government believe that regulation rather than statutory legislation is the way to move forward in these particular cases.