Welfare Reform and Work (Northern Ireland) Order 2016

Lord McAvoy Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, first I want to place on record our genuine appreciation of the steps taken by the Minister to inform the Official Opposition of each step as it was taken along the way in implementing the order. He went to great lengths—probably more lengths than was required, but it is always appreciated. The many details that he has given us about welfare reform today and in his letter to my noble friend Lady Sherlock do not entirely resonate with us, but we take the point of view that the overriding priority was and is the political situation in Northern Ireland, and therefore we will not stand in the way of the order.

The point has been made before by a number of people in discussing the legislation, and the whole Northern Ireland situation, that credit must be given to Members of Parliament on all sides of the House of Commons for agreeing to this statutory instrument. They could be open to accusations that they were supporting a better deal for Northern Ireland than their own people were getting. We could argue back and forth about that but, again, the overriding principle that we are pursuing is a duty of care to the whole of Northern Ireland to facilitate agreement and the political situation coming together.

On this 100th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme and other battles in the First World War, where many people from the island of Ireland from both the loyalist and nationalist communities paid with their lives to support their overall country, Britain and the United Kingdom, in the war against the Germans at that time, can we put a price on that? Many parts of the country suffered terrible losses, such as the north-east—I am not going to start naming them all because I will miss out one area that paid a terrible price in Europe fighting for freedom. We owe a duty of care to the people of the island of Ireland as well as Northern Ireland. One of my own family members, my grandmother’s brother, Joseph Martin of the Martin family of Irvinestown in County Fermanagh, is buried in the military graveyard in Arras in France. He fought with the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. I well remember the stories that my grandmother told me about her brother.

It has been a rocky and difficult road in Northern Ireland and there is still a long way to go. The solution offered in the fresh start programme and the negotiations were and are justified. It shows that the rest of the UK is anxious to maintain the state of peace in Northern Ireland. I know full well that I and the Labour Party may be criticised for not standing in the way of this order, but we take the bigger picture that the people of Northern Ireland deserve support in their struggles to come to a conclusion so that both communities in Northern Ireland can work better together.

Once again, I thank the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Freud, for his terrific information and points of view put to us in various correspondence. I indicate that we will not in any way oppose the order.

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, perhaps I may say how much I appreciate what the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, said. One thing he said that really gets to the heart of this is that the people of Northern Ireland deserve our support. That is felt across the Benches and around the Chamber; we all feel that. We have gone through an unusual procedure, but the fresh start agreement has taken Northern Ireland from a long impasse. I happen to have been deeply involved in the process right from the beginning, years ago, talking to all the different parties in Northern Ireland, and I know exactly how difficult it has been for them.

The statutory instrument has the support of the Northern Ireland Assembly. It does not diminish the devolution settlement. It supports the future financial and political stability of Northern Ireland. The response from the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, and the mood of the Chamber indicates that we want to give that support to Northern Ireland. Therefore, without more ado, I commend the Motion.