Jobseeker’s Allowance (18–21 Work Skills Pilot Scheme) Regulations 2014

Lord McAvoy Excerpts

Wednesday 19th November 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord McAvoy (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his very full exposition of the regulations. Twice I have heard him say that the number of full-time students has been extracted from the figures. To start off, can he give us the figures for those in full-time education this year and the previous year, if he has them available? If not, would he write to me? Secondly, I would like to follow up on an aspect of what the noble Lord, Lord German, had to say. I think the Minister used the term “deselected” for students who do not come up to scratch on the two aspects of education. Could he explain why information technology is not included in the subjects in this pilot? It would seem almost essential these days, even for my generation, to be fully competent in information technology. I do not see that that would cause too many complications. I would like to find out more about why information technology is not included. I also do not know whether he can find a better word than “deselected”, which is a bit harsh. Maybe he just has to have a sensitive side.

With some justification, the Minister has indicated that the proportion of young people not in education, employment or training is significantly higher here than in other countries. As has been pointed out, alongside the NEET figures referred to by the Minister—where there has been a reduction—there has also been a dramatic growth in the number of young people we just do not know about, as my right honourable friend Stephen Timms pointed out in the other place. Taking account of these issues, the position is perhaps worse than the NEET figures suggest.

I am also interested in finding out what happened to the review authorised by the Cabinet Secretary in September last year, now over a year ago, which intended to look at the Government’s approach to youth unemployment in the United Kingdom. As my right honourable friend Stephen Timms also pointed out, there does not seem to be any indication anywhere in Parliament of what happened to that review. I am certainly looking for an explanation as to why it was not carried out.

The Minister talked about sanctions. It is becoming clear across Jobcentre Plus that many people have no idea why they have been issued with their sanction. An explanation really needs to be given whenever sanctions are introduced, if we are not going to destroy totally people’s morale and belief in themselves, as the noble Lord, Lord German, pointed out. We are going to totally destroy people who are lacking in self-belief by wiping them out in this manner. That was not deliberately put across by the Minister, but it is certainly the intention.

I would also like to see more positive indications. Folk will quite rightly ask, “What alternatives have you got?”. Stephen Timms has announced that a Labour Government would take unemployed 18 to 21 year-olds who have not been in employment for a year and who have not yet achieved a level 3 qualification off jobseeker’s allowance and instead place them on a new youth allowance that would be dependent on participation in training. I can see elements of that taken account of —I will not say “poached”—in the proposals for these pilots. The proposal was, rightly, that the amount of allowance would be based on parental income on a similar basis to that used for assessing student maintenance. Positive suggestions have been made by Her Majesty’s Opposition but the concentration here is on the regulation put forward by the Minister.

I have no further questions other than about the number of full-time students; what considerations were taken into account before information technology was disqualified from being included in the exams; and, finally, what happened to the review which the Cabinet Secretary was supposed to carry out. I would not like to think we have armchair or sofa government at No. 10, so there must be a reason why that review was not carried out.

[Lord Freud]

I thank noble Lords for those two contributions. There is a consensus here that we need to do everything we can to reduce unemployment in young people, increase their opportunity for sustained employment and get their earnings to the maximum possible level. One of the key elements underneath the academic research—most dramatically that undertaken by Professor Wolf—is that English and maths, at the levels required by employers, are at the heart of successful vocational education. That is exactly what this pilot is designed to look at.

I remind noble Lords that this pilot is about whether we can make something work which is very difficult to achieve. We are trying to find evidence of whether systematically mandating young adults to blended or online learning works, and we need a randomised control trial to provide an evidence base to determine whether that is the way to go. If my noble friend will accept the innovation here, it is about finding out what actually works. There have been various tests abroad—in California and Chicago—of whether this kind of model works for people who have not been able to get these skills or qualifications through the educational process. There is sound evidence elsewhere and some academic research so it really is worth testing the proposition. We clearly need the pilot to find out the most cost-effective and best method of delivery for learning and to ensure that the claimants are engaged and supported to complete their learning aim. The last thing we want to do is roll out, on a national basis, something for which we have not established the costs and benefits.

The question from my noble friend Lord German was: how on earth will six months of this kind of activity succeed where 11 years of compulsory education has failed? The reason is that the form of learning is different; it is more flexible, more attractive, focused on work and largely online in both the different types—the blended and the pure online. The providers involved will address learners’ needs, such as a lack of confidence, through their training. They are registered further education providers with experience of working with these types of learners.

The other question asked by my noble friend was: why is this taking place in England alone? He answered his own question with far greater precision than I ever could. As he knows, skills is a devolved matter and any pilot activity in a devolved Administration would require consent from the respective Governments. We will, of course, be sharing our findings on these particular pilots with these Governments to inform their own policies in this area.

I was asked by the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, about the number of people in full-time education who are looking for work. The number currently unemployed is 737,000 of whom 489,000 are not in full-time education, so the number of people looking for work who are also full-time students—I wish I could do sums in my head—is 248,000. This is really taxing my mathematical competence without a calculator so I will send the noble Lord the equivalent figure from last year before I collapse in a heap.

[Lord McAvoy]

Oh, go on.

[Lord Freud]

I know the noble Lord would enjoy that more than anything but rather than do that let me go on to talk about the Heywood review, which he admired so much in public for which we are very grateful. In addition to these pilots there is also the 16 to 17 year-olds’ NEET initiative by the DWP in partnership with local authorities which provides personalised job advice and support through Jobcentre Plus. In the Autumn Statement the Chancellor announced a further range of pilots around changes to benefit rules surrounding traineeships, and in February the Deputy Prime Minister announced changes to careers advice and a new UCAS-style system for 16 year-olds. I can assure the noble Lord that there will be further announcements in due course about additional support for young people. I know that he will claim that they were all ideas generated by his own party but I think he is stretching credulity with that claim.

On the question of why information technology is not included, it is almost a logical impossibility, if we are testing online capability with these tests, to get English and maths learning over. It is a completely different proposition to look at online proficiency. It presupposes online proficiency, which is what we understand to be the most important thing, but English and maths are important. We may have to have a look at IT skills as well, as I suspect the noble Lord is suggesting, but that is not what this pilot is about. However, I take his point under advisement.

I am infuriated that I have just been given the figures but no sums have been done, so some of my team are as mathematically challenged as I am. No, I have been given the calculations too: I can confirm the figure of 248,000 in the three months to September 2014, which was down 62,000 over the year. I think that that has addressed all the issues raised, and I commend the regulations to the Grand Committee.