BBC Charter

Lord Maxton Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, I want to preface my remarks by reminding the House that the BBC and the renewal of its charter as contained in this draft was not a foregone conclusion. The BBC as we know it was in real danger of emasculation. The constant, almost daily, drip of negative stories about the BBC in some media outlets, and the so-called informed leaks and misinformation, were a concern for many. Against this backdrop, it was good to hear the voices of reason and sanity reminding us what a revered organisation the BBC is, both nationally and worldwide.

I sat in on a number of debates in which noble Lords across all Benches spoke with objectivity and passion about how important the BBC is to us. I particularly remember the inside knowledge shown by our own Lord Speaker, who regularly rose from the Conservative Benches to defend the BBC. The work of the House of Lords Communication Committee was also invaluable, and, of course, the public response meant that no Government could turn their back on what was being said.

So now we have a draft charter and I congratulate the Government and the BBC on it. The charter and the licence fee are guaranteed for the next 11 years. The Government have listened to the concerns about the make-up of the unitary board, and yes, the BBC is a public service broadcaster, not a state broadcaster. I share the concern of the noble Lord, Lord Birt, about the size of the board and how crucial the appointment of those members to it is.

A number of issues still need consideration. We have heard a lot about distinctiveness. The BBC is distinctive and will continue to produce distinctive programmes. It surely does not mean that every programme has to pass a test or hallmark—excuse the pun—of distinctiveness. It does mean that the BBC should be at the vanguard of producing distinctive and original programmes, and, dare I say it, popular programmes.

The other concern is over talent pay. This is mean and measly. If it is about public money—it uses public money so it should be declared—that argument should be true wherever public money goes. So why are we not publishing the amount that chief executives of academies earn, or highly paid principals of academies? This is a ridiculous proposal that will have the effect of poaching talent and increasing costs. Thinking about it, if a particular star is working for an independent that is producing a programme for the BBC, their salary does not have to be revealed. It makes a nonsense of what is being proposed.

[Lord Maxton (Lab)]

I accept up to a point what the noble Lord says, but the fact is Mr John Humphrys is not poachable by anybody. He knows exactly what salary is being paid to whichever politician he is interviewing at any point in time, but that politician does not know what his salary is and they ought to.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Maxton]

My Lords, I started off by looking at whether I should make this speech at all. I read what I said last time, in the debate instituted by my noble friend Lady Bakewell, and thought maybe I should not as I said then most of what I want to say now. However, I will say several things, which I hope will be brief.

First, as a Scot I do not want to see the Scottish Parliament in control of a BBC Scotland. I do not want the Scottish Parliament to have regulation of the broadcasting or internet services in Scotland. Lastly, maybe most mundanely but also most importantly, I do not want a “Scottish Six”. In other words, I do not want to see an hour-long Scottish programme at six o’clock. One has only to listen to “Good Morning Scotland” on the radio to know that that is not something any Scot in his right mind would want. By the way, my wife always insists on turning on BBC Radio Scotland on the bedside radio, not because she is interested in listening to the news or even the weather forecast in Scotland but because it puts her back to sleep. I said, “Let’s change it to Radio 4”, and she said, “But Radio 4—the ‘Today’ programme—keeps me awake”. So I do not want any of that.

I welcome the Minister to his new position and I welcome this debate, but at the end of the day we are not going to vote on the charter, we cannot amend it and we cannot do anything at all but have this debate today. That is it as far as I am aware. Several noble Lords—the noble Lord, Lord Birt, in particular—said that it is time the BBC was put on a statutory basis and that we had the introduction of a Bill to establish the BBC in that way. Then the House of Commons and the Houses of Lords, in which there are many experts as we have seen tonight, would be able to look at that, examine it in detail and amend it and then we could go into that process. It may be too late for that now, but I hope that in the very near future the Government will consider it and put it in process.

I have three reasons for this. First, I must say to my noble friend Lord Cashman—

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

I just want to clear up a misunderstanding. The proposal is not for detailed legislative intervention in the BBC but simply for some standards and principles that the charter and agreement must meet. There is no suggestion of interference by statute in the BBC. It is setting down standards and criteria.

[Lord Maxton]

Well, the BBC is going to continue its life for the next 11 years, apparently, on the basis of the charter that we are debating tonight. There is no statute that we can seek to amend at this point in time.

I have to say to my noble friend Lord Cashman that there are people who are accountable to the licence fee payers. They are elected by the licence fee payers. They work along the Corridor from us. They are called Members of Parliament. They are elected by the licence fee payers and the BBC should be accountable to them. Therefore, that should be part and parcel of the work they undertake. Of course, that is not the only job they do; they do a lot of other work as well. I was one of them and I know they do a lot of other work. But the fact is that the BBC is a public body. It ought to be accountable to those who are elected to represent the people of this country.

Secondly, the noble Lord, Lord Sherbourne, is absolutely right. The noble Lord, Lord Birt, has to be congratulated on the work he did as director-general in moving the BBC into the new media, but 11 years is a long, long time in the modern world. If you look back 11 years to 2005, just after I came to this House, you will see how much the media have changed during that period. If you look forward 11 years, it will change even more and even faster. I can watch any programme I want from anywhere in the world on this screen I am holding, but also by putting it on to my television screen through a variety of devices, which will get cheaper and easier to use as time goes on. We have to take account of that. Having an 11-year charter is a nonsense when we could have the BBC established as a statutory body, accountable to the public and to those who are elected by the public, and then change it as we go along. At the moment it is almost immutable and 11 years is too long. We have to consider whether or not the changes that are taking place in our society are those that are going to be necessary and are going to happen anyway.

Lastly, person after person has used the term “broadcasting”. We are moving, if we have not moved already, into an age in which broadcasting is the wrong word. It is now narrowcasting. We listen to what we want to listen to, we watch what we want to watch, when we want to watch it, on what device we want to watch it on, and how we want to watch it. That is the future, and we have to take that into account when we look at the future of the BBC.

[Lord Maclennan of Rogart (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for opening this debate in a way that enabled Members of this House to speak their minds, rather than putting his foot down and saying that this was the final decision.

The BBC is facing a reduction in its financing and that has to be taken into consideration. It has dropped by 25% and I seriously recommend that the Government contemplate how to deal with that. None the less, the BBC’s services reach 97% of the UK population every week. The average is eight and a half hours of TV and 10 hours of BBC radio. My son-in-law works as a director for the BBC World Service, and I am proud to note that that service reaches a global audience of 246 million weekly.

The music of the BBC is wonderful and Radio 3 is particularly responsible for that. The head of public affairs at the BBC has suggested that the focus should be on the best of new British talent. I suggest that the organisation Awards for Young Musicians should be incorporated into Radio 3 and that the Government ought to approach Hester Cockcroft, who is in charge of that organisation, about this.

BBC News is considered to be the most accurate of the broadcasters, with 58% of the British public seeing the news in that way. That is highly commendable and I hope that it will remain the same.

On the issue of children, again, the head of public affairs at the BBC has said that the BBC will make the full range of BBC content for children available through a single online platform. That is subject to discussion but it would be interesting if that debate could be held.

I noticed that my colleague the noble Lord, Lord Maxton, said that he does not want consultation with the Scottish Parliament, but consultation with devolved Governments would be wise—not necessarily to accept what they say, but as the voice of the people around the United Kingdom.

[Lord Maxton]

If the noble Lord will allow me, I did not say that there should be no consultation with the Scottish Parliament but I do not want the Scottish Parliament to have control over the broadcasting services.

[Lord Maclennan of Rogart]

I entirely agree with that. I heard the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell of Coatdyke, pointing out that Scotland could have stronger broadcasting. She talked about the Gaelic language and how it was being noted and strengthened. That is very worth while.

I am concerned about two elements of this charter. One is that Ofcom could involve itself in editorial and creative judgments, which is a great mistake. Because it is to become the governors, I hope that will not happen.

The National Audit Office is also to audit the accounts. That should not allow it or the Public Accounts Committee to be involved in editorial or creative judgments. That must be emphasised and set out in the charter. The BBC is such a wonderful institution that it must speak for the people and to the people. I hope that it will continue to excel and to be the best broadcaster in the world.