Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Bill [HL]

Lord Mackay of Clashfern Excerpts

Tuesday 27th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern]

My Lords, it is my privilege and my pleasure to warmly congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes of Stretford, on her maiden speech. She has come here after a wealth of relevant experience, starting with her academic studies in Manchester and Liverpool, then practical work as a probation officer, returning again to the academic field and then to the House of Commons, as well as to local government where she has a number of important initiatives to her credit. As ultimately the Minister for Children and Youth Justice from 2007 to 2009, her status was recognised in that she attended the Cabinet as well as being the Minister for the North-West. What a tremendous range of qualifications and experience she brings, and indeed what we have just heard in her speech demonstrates how that experience has moulded what she had to say in support of this Bill with its huge implications for the safety of the citizens of the United Kingdom and other parts of the world, including the dependent territories, to which my noble friend Lord Patten referred.

As has been said, the regime dealt with in this Bill is founded on a United Nations resolution. The orders that were made under the United Nations Act 1946 were set aside by the Supreme Court because they went further than the protection that the United Nations resolution required. That may be a wise extension or it may not, and we need to examine this matter quite closely in Committee. However, I do not wish to repeat what has been said so eloquently by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, on this point.

The main issue that I wish to raise is that of appeal. The provision is for an appeal to be made in the form of an application to be judged by the principles of judicial review. That, I think, would primarily be directed to challenging the making of the order in the first place. However, one has to remember that there are detailed provisions in such an order and the licence which accompanies it in respect of the use of funds. For example, a question may arise about the amount that a designated person needs for his family’s sustenance. The idea that such a case would have to go to the Court of Session, the supreme court in Scotland—the senior court, I have to call it now—or the senior court in England by way of judicial review strikes me as extraordinary. There should be arrangements of a much less legalistic character whereby the case could go, for example, to the county court for the adjustment of matters of that kind. Where the fundamental question concerns the order itself, then possibly the provision made is appropriate, but there should also be some provision for other possible challenges.

When the temporary provisions Bill was being considered, I was not the only one to raise the question of looking at other terrorist financial provisions and serious crime provisions. After all, terrorism is an important species of serious crime and it would seem right that the regime should take account of that and have within it a system which applies—possibly with variations—across the board of serious organised crime and terrorism in particular.

I know that the timetable is restrictive and that not much time exists for the matter to be considered; however, it would be a mistake for this kind of consideration to be dealt with by a department. We are waiting to hear what might happen in the Home Office review and how that may affect our Bill but surely Her Majesty’s Treasury should also be involved; as I understand it, this is a Treasury Bill. If we want a comprehensive system, the review should include the departments with responsibility for operating the whole system and not only a part of it.

As the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, pointed out, there should be a degree of consistency across the systems. I heard it said long ago that a legal system that does not have a logical thread through it is destined for collapse. We should think about that. Indeed, when the orders were set aside by the Supreme Court, it was found that, under the then existing legislation, there was no other option but to put new orders in place. Some people wondered why that was so but the Minister in the Treasury explained it in some detail in the other place at the time. However, it showed that the legislation for terrorism was not comprehensive and certainly not strongly interconnected. It would be a great improvement if it were.

I am sandwiched—pleasantly so—between two maiden speeches. I look forward to the one to follow.