EU Police and Criminal Justice Measures: EUC Reports

Lord Lloyd of Berwick Excerpts

Thursday 23rd January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lloyd of Berwick (CB)]

My Lords, I am very glad to follow the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, who has spoken so clearly on these matters. When I put my name down to speak in this debate I knew that I must look back at what I said the last time we debated these matters, to ensure that I do not say something different on this occasion. I find that on 9 July 2013 I asked whether there was not an unjustified risk in opting out of what is good, which is the 35 measures, in order to get rid of the 95 pre-Lisbon measures, most of which are of no real use to anybody.

I am happy to say that the noble Lord, Lord McNally, who we miss today, said that there was a lot of logic in what I had said. I also note that on that occasion I said that it was the noble Lord, Lord McNally, who was missing the whole point in this debate and not, as he suggested, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, who I am happy to see in her position today.

Of course, things have moved on since then and I think that the best thing I can do today, as one of the few non-members of the European committee to take part in this debate and following the comprehensive speech of my noble friend Lord Hannay and the other excellent speeches that we have heard—above all, from the noble Baroness, Lady Corston—is to say how grateful we should all be for all the noble work that they do and have done since our last debate on our behalf, in particular for providing us with their follow-up report. It is a great comfort to the rest of us while we get on with other things, all of which are much less important than what we are discussing today, to feel that they are looking after these matters on our behalf. Having said that—and I really mean it—the only remaining service that I can usefully perform today is to draw attention to those matters in which I have the closest interest, on which the committee seems to have made out a strong case and in respect of which the Government’s response has been the most feeble.

First, I am delighted that we will opt in to the existing European Council decision on Europol, but I can see no good reason for not opting in now to the new regulations when they come forward. The only reason given by the Government is that they want to wait to see the completed text in case there is something that they do not like. That might be a good answer if we were talking about some non-proven field but it is not a good answer in relation to Europol, with which we are all, happily, very familiar.

Secondly, like the committee, I am glad that we are remaining in Eurojust, but I urge the Government also to remain in the European judicial network. Here, I strongly agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, said. The more co-operation we can have across national boundaries the better. The only answer given by the Home Secretary for not accepting this recommendation is that we all already talk sufficiently with each other in respect of these matters, but that is a completely inadequate answer.

Thirdly, I come to the European probation order. It is not one of the 35 measures but I can give no better reason for opting in to it than that it was suggested that we do so by Sir Scott Baker. For the reasons he gave—and there are no better reasons from no better man—I suggest that we should opt back in to it. Once again, the Government have given no reason for not doing so.

Lastly, I want to refer to the question of the court’s jurisdiction. I simply do not understand what the Government’s position is on this and I would be very glad if, in his reply, the noble Lord could give us an explanation.

I have come to the end but my final point is perhaps the most important. I urge the Government to press on with the negotiation with all possible urgency for two reasons: first, to avoid, if possible, the need for any transition arrangements and, above all, to avoid a last-minute gap appearing in the structure, which could be truly disastrous; and, secondly, to give us enough time to prepare for the next debate, which has been promised and at which we will have to make a crucial decision.