Brexit: British Airlines

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2019 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of any restrictions that could be placed on British airlines as a result of the European Commission’s proposed measures to ensure basic air connectivity between the United Kingdom and the European Union in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and declare my interest as a pilot.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, last week the European Union provisionally agreed a regulation giving UK airlines the right to fly to the EU. The UK will reciprocate and provide, as a minimum, equivalent rights to airlines from European states. Taken together, these measures will ensure that flights will continue in a no-deal scenario. The department will continue to work with stakeholders across the aviation industry as we approach exit day. Leaving the EU with a deal remains the Government’s top priority.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate]

While I am reassured by my noble friend’s reply, I am sure she will understand that there remain a number of anxieties, particularly among those who are planning to travel around Easter and afterwards, and also those in the boardrooms of a number of internationally operating airlines who need some certainty in their planning and structure. Could she make sure that these proposals are well advertised? I am also concerned about the possible effects of a no-deal scenario on non-EU international connectivity. Could she address that as well?

[Baroness Sugg]

I reassure my noble friend that we are speaking to airlines regularly and keeping them updated on the progress of the regulations. Of course, they are following them in detail. There will be no effect on non-EU international travel; we have 111 bilateral agreements with third countries and those will continue. We are doing what we can to mitigate any disruption that we might foresee. We do not expect there to be much disruption, assuming that the regulations pass as we expect. There may be some issues at EU airports given some changes to passport checks, but we are working very closely with those airports to ensure that we minimise disruption.

Drones: Consultation

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Tuesday 29th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes a very important point. Of course, we need to ensure that all our airports are protected, but there is a degree of proportionality to that. I met with airports recently and will continue to work with them on ensuring that they have the best capability possible. Also, the Centre for the Protection of National Infrastructure is working on standards for counter-drone technology and offers advice to organisations, including airports, on the availability of current technology.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, as my noble friend will know, I am chairing an all-party parliamentary inquiry into lower airspace in the United Kingdom. Apart from the guild of air pilots and other interested organisations, is she consulting or likely to consult with the responsible advocates of drone flying—those who want to abide by regulations and controls? To what extent is she in touch with those people as well as other stakeholders?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, of course it is very important that we take the needs of general aviation users into consideration, as well as drone flyers. As my noble friend points out, the vast majority of drone users behave safely and responsibly. We will continue to work with them as airspace modernisation and drones develop.

Gatwick Airport

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Thursday 20th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, I think that it is a Front Bench response on an Urgent Question.

I am dissatisfied by the Minister’s responses. I am sure that I am not the only noble Lord to declare an interest in Christmas flights from Gatwick, but there are two sets of issues: the longer-term issues referred to and the emergency issues for today. This incident is causing disruption and distress for thousands, with more than 100,000 people stranded.

Given the length of time that this incident has been going on and the scale of the disruption, it is clear that it has not been caused by a teenager playing with an early Christmas present from their bedroom. It is obviously malicious. The Government have to address serious issues.

The police say that they have 20 units looking for the operator or operators. Do they have the expertise and equipment? They now say that they are launching a campaign for information. Have the Government consulted or engaged our military, who surely have a higher grade of technology for dealing with drones? Which Ministers are monitoring the situation and co-ordinating the emergency response, and who will they report back to? I remember the days when Prime Ministers would have had a COBRA meeting overnight to co-ordinate ministerial responses.

Given their urgency, I would expect the Minister to have investigated these issues and to have come back to the House today with an answer. If she cannot give an answer now, will she assure the House that she will return within the hour to do so?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, as I said, this is an ongoing operation. Sussex Police are in the lead and have officers on the ground. They are doing everything they can to locate the drone and its operators. All relevant parts of government, including the Department for Transport, the Home Office and the Ministry of Defence are involved in the response, and we are doing everything we can. As I said, it is an ongoing police investigation and I am afraid that I am not able to confirm the details at this time.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate]

My Lords, I declare an interest, first, as a pilot but also as chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on General Aviation’s investigation into airspace in the UK. We are very concerned with the incursion into airspace by drones. While I am reassured by my noble friend’s remarks, we feel that it is urgent that these matters be dealt with and that full accountability for drone operators and those who sell drones to the public is now implemented.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, as I explained, we changed the law earlier this year, bringing in an exclusion zone around airports. We are working with manufactures and retailers to ensure that the new rules are communicated to those who purchase drones. From November next year, people will need to register their drone and take an online safety test. We have also recently consulted on extending police powers and will make an announcement on next steps shortly.

Railways: Timetables

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I am afraid that I have not seen that 10% timetabling figure but I will certainly go back to the department to follow that up. I assure the noble Lord that this inquiry is absolutely not a cover-up. As I said, the expert panel will have particular regard to whether the ORR’s role as regulator has been properly assessed by the inquiry. The inquiry will look very carefully at the role of the Department for Transport in planning the enhancements and at the approach to planning general network changes.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, would it not be a good idea if those who ran our railways were to reconsider the excellent example of the original Bradshaw’s guide to the railways for a timetable?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I must admit that I have not read that guide but I look forward to reading it over the Summer Recess.

Brexit: Aviation

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Tuesday 6th March 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, following the appointment of their General Aviation Champion, when they will set out how future regulation of general aviation will be handled after the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union; and how this will fit in with plans to reform United Kingdom airspace policy.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, regulatory oversight of general aviation is shared between the European Aviation Safety Agency and the Civil Aviation Authority. As the Prime Minister made clear in her speech last Friday, we will seek participation in the EASA system after we leave the European Union. The UK’s airspace modernisation programme, together with the aviation strategy, aims to provide a framework that enables industry, including general aviation, and communities to continue working together to deliver airspace modernisation while managing the environmental impacts of aviation.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, speaking as a GA pilot, I am very interested in success in that sector and in controlled airspace. Can my noble friend confirm that, as the review takes place, we will be looking at the possibility of reducing, not just increasing, controlled airspace to the advantage of that sector? The Minister referred to EASA. Can she please clarify that, in our negotiations for continued involvement with EASA, we will also be negotiating our position to remain members of the various committees under EASA? Can she clarify what our proposals are for international airspace access in the wider setting outside Europe?

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank my noble friend for his question. The Government absolutely recognise the importance of the general aviation sector, the economic footprint of which is an estimated £3 billion. On controlled airspace, as my noble friend will know, airports often want to increase controlled airspace for safety reasons, which are of course paramount, but when making decisions on airspace changes proposals, which can absolutely consider a reduction in controlled airspace, the CAA has a duty to consider the interests of all stakeholders, including general aviation.

Laser Misuse (Vehicles) Bill [HL]

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 9th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, particularly as he knows so much about the details of the military aspect.

I welcome the Bill and am pleased that it has been taken forward, but I presume it is a holding measure ahead of the business department’s investigation into the market for lasers that is also currently under way. I hope that my noble friend the Minister will agree that, once that process is concluded, she and her officials will re-examine this legislation and, where appropriate, introduce consolidation measures. The Bill, while welcome, is not sufficient in itself because it leaves a lot to chance. The illicit use of lasers is growing year on year and the dangers are becoming more apparent. I do not declare an interest as such but I am a private pilot and a former director of Newcastle airport, so I will confine my remarks to aviation and hope that that will be understood.

There are particular dangers in aviation when lasers are directed at aeroplanes. These threats can be both while the plane is in the air and when it is on the ground, either taxiing or stationary. UK airports are recording laser attacks daily, and the number is increasing. In 2016 alone, there were nearly 1,500 such matters reported. Although, luckily, most of these did not cause health issues, we have evidence from elsewhere in the world where these matters are also being considered of serious injury to some pilots—some cases of retina damage. But the real problem here is not so much that health danger, although it exists, but the distraction, often at a critical moment of ascent, descent or manoeuvre, which at least complicates the work of pilots and presents dangers.

The statistics are, to my knowledge and belief, if anything understating the situation. The reporting mechanisms for these occurrences are far from clear. Within airport control zones, both on the ground and in the air, a report can be made, responded to and passed to the appropriate authorities quickly, but away from such zones—although these are not the majority of incidents—regional air traffic controllers do not always know how to handle reports, and the precise location of lasers is extremely difficult to determine from the air. We also have a separate military control in any event, but detecting and detaining someone using a laser—as we know, a laser could be as small as a fountain pen—by determining where they are located is virtually impossible, unless the source can be accurately pinpointed in some way. I am delighted to hear that the police are to be given extra powers to search suspects or premises when they have the intelligence to get close to where these events have occurred, but finding the locations alone is extremely difficult.

We have it in our hands to limit the sale of lasers, especially those of greater power than 1 milliwatt. Unfortunately, many people have been selling lasers which are described as low power but which in truth have been much greater in power. Anything greater than that level is a danger. We can limit the sale of knives, fireworks and acid, so why not lasers?

I congratulate the Civil Aviation Authority and the airport operators for their approach to education. They hold an annual UK Airports Safety Week in which community leaders and young people are told about the threats and dangers relating to the operation of aviation in the UK. These have been a great contribution, so education plays a part. Indeed, as I mentioned, other countries are also being plagued in this way, but they have taken very stern action. The United States has a federal offence relating to the abuse of lasers. In France, there are clear limits on the power of devices. In Switzerland and Canada, there are strict rules on the use of lasers.

I must add that there is a need to be clear on definitions. Strongly focused torches or LED equipment can also distract if pointed at vehicles or aeroplanes. We heard earlier that lasers have been in existence for only a few years. Before that, we were plagued by real nuisances where torches were used to try to distract pilots landing at our airports. Even before that, airguns and other weapons, as it were, were used to disrupt aviation. There have always been risks.

I also want to mention that there are legitimate uses for strong lights. We need to be sure, in our Committee stage at least, that we bear in mind the air navigation processes regarding emergency lighting. As I am sure noble Lords will know, when an airport has a radio communication issue with a plane, or there is some disruption, it has to turn to the use of coloured lights. A steady green light in aviation means that it is clear to land at an airport. A steady red light means that a plane must continue circling and not land. I have to say that sometimes, if we are not careful, there could be confusion, bearing in mind that nearly all the lasers that have been used to disrupt aviation have been either a green or a red light. We have to be very careful. This would not affect large airports as much, but in the case of smaller fields or facilities, it could be a problem.

I very much welcome this legislation as a start, but we must understand that it has to be refined and updated on a review basis. I am afraid that I am old enough to remember the Dangerous Dogs Act. That Act has little to do with aviation, of course, but it bothered me enormously when I was a Home Office Minister. Everyone clamoured for something to be done after nasty incidents had occurred in which adults and children were attacked by dogs. Our good intentions were soon thwarted by the lack of flexibility and the prescriptive nature of the legislation. We failed to understand that the best intentions and determination to legislate must follow full due diligence, otherwise the practical outcomes add up to less than we need to alleviate the original problem.