Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Thursday 8th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak very briefly in support of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, and my noble friend Lord Blencathra on the process. Time in Committee is obviously linked to the progress of meetings, and I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for offering a one-on-one meeting on one aspect of the Bill.

However, the usual manner in Committee, as I have understood it from substantive Bills—usually government Bills—is to have themed meetings with quite a large number of Peers to discuss issues. There may be around 10, but I would say that there are more than 10 issues here. That is concentrated down on Report. If the noble and learned Lord could adopt that process, it would limit the time in Committee.

I might also remind the noble and learned Lord of his evidence to the Select Committee when I raised the issue of advertising. If noble Lords look at Clause 43, they would think that advertising was still on printed pieces of paper. We know that that is not the case but, due to the lack of government write-round on a Private Member’s Bill, the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology, which has responsibility for the Online Safety Act, has no idea what the impact of that clause will be on that Act or on online advertising. In response to my questions, the noble and learned Lord accepted that he needs to come back with more detail on advertising.

I have looked at the Order Paper under Clause 43 and there are a number of amendments, but still none from the noble and learned Lord in relation to these matters, so I am now going to have to go to the Public Bill Office to get my amendments drafted not knowing what the noble and learned Lord’s position was when he gave that evidence before Christmas. That is the type of issue of process that is causing more time to be used in your Lordships’ House. I have about 15 amendments down, so I am concentrating on a handful of the issues, which I believe is the way I have behaved with any Bill before your Lordships’ House to date.

[Captain of the Honourable Corps of Gentlemen-at-Arms and Chief Whip (Lord Kennedy of Southwark) (Lab Co-op)]

May I ask noble Lords to focus more clearly on the Motion in front of us and not get into discussing the Bill? What is before us is very narrow and could be disposed of quite quickly if we focus on that.

[Lord Gove (Con)]

My Lords, I support the intent behind the Motion of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer. I believe that it is right that the House be given the opportunity to scrutinise the Bill in exhaustive detail, given the significance of the legislation and, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevens of Birmingham, pointed out, the comparison that can be legitimately drawn with government legislation of equal significance but perhaps less moment that has had a greater degree of pre-legislative scrutiny and consultation.

I also think it right to take account of the point that was made fairly and succinctly by my noble and learned friend Lord Garnier: that we are being invited to commit to extra time without necessarily knowing how much and under what circumstances. We may receive enlightenment from the Government Front Bench; we may receive indications from Ministers as to what is envisaged; but it would be helpful to know, rather than to vote in favour of or to offer our support for a generalised sentiment rather than a precise plan of action. Indeed, some of the concern about the legislation being put forward has come from those who sympathise with the generalised sentiment of the legislation itself but worry profoundly about implementation.

In the evidence of the Committee that we have had so far, I believe that the debate has been characterised by high-quality interventions from all sides. I would briefly single out the intervention of the noble Baroness, Lady Berger. The debate she initiated on the age at which this momentous decision might be taken prompted the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, to acknowledge that many wise arguments were raised and that it was appropriate that some discussion should take place outside this place about how her concerns might be taken account of in the legislation. It was gracious of him to do so, but valuable as those conversations outside the Chamber are, they are no substitute, as the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, pointed out, for an acknowledgement in the Chamber of a willingness on the part of the promoters of the Bill and others to come forward with their own amendments, or to accept amendments from other Peers which ensure that the lacunae identified in the legislation are to be properly addressed before we reach Report and Third Reading, or on Report.

My final point—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Gove (Con)]

Noble Lords may not wish to hear it, but this is of direct relevance to the debate.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, can we just turn the temperature of the House down a bit, please? There is no need for this. We have a very narrow Motion before us. Let us stick to the Motion and make a decision.

[Lord Russell of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I shall move to the Woolsack in a few minutes, so I shall be mute, for which many noble Lords will be grateful. Perhaps I might just point out to the noble Lord, and perhaps to some of his colleagues who have graced us with their presence in recent months, that the principle that this House has in the way it conducts itself is self-regulation. Perhaps I could just define what self-regulation is not. Self-regulation is not regulating oneself in one’s own self-interest; it is regulating oneself in the interest of the whole House and of the reputation of the House, and to get business done. I think that certain noble Lords are in danger of misunderstanding exactly what we understand self-regulation to be, and they are doing themselves and their reputation no good.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

Before the noble Baroness intervenes, can I just say that if we are having questions to the noble and learned Lord, they should be on the Motion and not on the wider issue of the Bill.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston (Con)]

Before the noble and learned Lord makes his decision whether to press his Motion, I simply wanted to ask the Leader of the House whether, if this Motion is passed, she believes that a new form of procedure has then been created by this House. It will no longer really be a Private Member’s Bill. We will have a situation where, as a Back-Bencher, the noble and learned Lord will have demonstrated that it is possible to take control of the scheduling of business in this House. As there have been a lot of very positive contributions both from the noble and the learned Lord and from others in response to this Motion and a desire for this House to change the way in which it is dealing with this Bill, would it be better for him to withdraw the Motion rather than create a new situation?

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

That the House do now adjourn.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, before I move to adjourn the House, I wanted to touch on the impact of the Motion of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer. The House has agreed the Motion, and the Government will reflect on that carefully with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer. As my noble friend Lady Smith of Basildon has said, the Government remain neutral on the Bill, and I cannot give any firm commitments about what will happen next. But as is right, we will carefully think how we can progress the Bill outside government time.

I am sure noble Lords will have questions about what this means for tomorrow. As I have said, ultimately how the House sits on any given day is in the hands of the House, not me as Government Chief Whip. But, as my noble friend Lady Smith has said, I do not consider it reasonable for the House to sit beyond the usual rising time tomorrow at this short notice. My noble and learned friend Lord Falconer has, of course, agreed with that, and has made that clear in his contribution. I will therefore seek to adjourn the House at around 3 pm tomorrow, as I have done in previous weeks. I will then, as my noble friend Lady Smith has said, seek to hold urgent discussions with the usual channels and the House authorities early next week, to seek to find a way forward to deliver what the House has just agreed. With that, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

House adjourned at 6.56 pm.