Trade Unions

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Monday 7th July 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, like other noble Lords who have spoken, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, for putting this Question down for debate today. Like my noble friend Lord Monks, I voted for the noble Lord on many occasions when he was a Labour Member of the European Parliament, and I wish him well in his new endeavours in his new party.

I declare an interest as a member of the GMB and would remind the Committee that I have been a trade union member since I left school. I joined USDAW and the Co-op at around the same time—I do not know which one was first—when I started work in the retail sector. I am now the president of the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists, which is a very small specialist trade union working in the NHS.

I join my noble friend Lord Morris of Handsworth in his remarks about Ernest Bevin. I pay tribute to the Bevin boys and the role they played in the war effort.

This has been an interesting debate with a very experienced range of speakers. I was particularly pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, spoke because it is important that Members from the Government Benches should speak in these debates. He was right in his comments about partnership, and we all want to see that.

I think it is fair to say that the relationship between the Conservative Party and the trade unions has often been fraught. We can go back and look at the Governments led by William Pitt the Younger and the introduction of the Combination Acts in 1799 and 1800 and see that it is nothing new. The biggest recent change with respect to the relationship between the unions and the Government came in the 1980s and 1990s in the Governments of Margaret Thatcher and John Major. Trade unions were not viewed as allies or as organisations the Government could work with or wanted to work with. That is a matter of regret as unions have an important role to play in representing their members. They seek to improve terms and conditions through bargaining with employers, but they are also the biggest voluntary sector organisation in the country. They have 6.2 million members from all walks of life. They have an important role to play in civil society. They campaign for social justice at home and abroad. They have joined forces with a wide variety of organisations and have a proud record of achievements that have made our country a better place in which to live.

The noble Lord, Lord Balfe, made some points regarding which political parties trade union members support. Like any other group of people, support for particular political parties among trade union members will ebb and flow due to a range of circumstances, and trade union members will vote for all sorts of parties. Most trade unions are not affiliated to the Labour Party and never have been. Major changes to the relationship between affiliated unions and the party were agreed earlier this year. When the Minister replies, perhaps he will tell the Committee why the Government do not always see trade unions as organisations with which they can discuss things and work more closely. If it is because they see them as the arm of a political opponent, that is a most regrettable place to be and is incorrect, but it may explain some of the actions they have taken.

This Government, although it is a coalition, is a Conservative-led coalition. During the passage of the lobbying Bill in the previous Session, proposals were brought in which affected trade unions, as my noble friend Lord Monks said. They were supported by both coalition parties. Like my noble friends, I still struggle to see any difference they have made or any help they have given anybody. I am sorry to hear reports of further legislation in the pipeline, and I am sure the Minister will deal with that in his response.

As I have said, trade unions have a proud record of campaigning on a wide variety of issues. Let us take the area of health and safety. Where we have a unionised workforce the rate of injuries is much lower. That can be attributed to the management and safety reps sitting down together to deal with issues and find solutions. I recall going on a parliamentary visit to the Olympic Park just before the Games started. Sir John Armitt, who was then the chair of the Olympic Delivery Authority, proudly told us that health and safety was important to the authority, the companies and the unions involved, and indeed to the workforce. The worst accident on the entire site over the duration of the whole project had been one broken leg. Contrast that with the agriculture industry, which is not heavily unionised. People work in small groups on small farms. On average over the past 10 years, one person has been killed every single week as a direct result of their work. It is by far the most dangerous industry in the UK. Perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Popat, can tell the Committee what the Government intend to do to deal with health and safety in the agricultural sector.

My noble friend Lord Morris said that there are numerous examples of unions working together with employers to achieve the best for the business. I recall speaking last year to a senior manager in British Gas who told me that the company would not be as productive as it is without the support and help of GMB. The union is an integral part of the business. It has a direct interest in ensuring that the business succeeds because its members’ livelihoods depend on it. My noble friend Lady Dean made similar remarks, which I fully support. Let us look at the car manufacturing industry in the UK. It has been transformed, with thousands of jobs across many companies employing people who are building quality products. Many years ago I had the privilege of going to the Toyota plant in Burnaston with my noble friend Lord Prescott. It is an excellent example of unions and employers working together, and I pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Morris for securing that inward investment into the UK.

The noble Lord, Lord Balfe, and other noble Lords mentioned the benefits of union learning and other training schemes. The trade unions have a proud record of supporting and assisting members by providing education for them. Trade unions have also been campaigning for better deals for part-time workers and were instrumental in setting up the Pension Protection Fund. The noble Lord, Lord Balfe, referred to the positive contribution trade unions have made to the provision of pensions for UK workers, and I strongly agree with that. I also agree with the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, about facility time and the attacks on check-off. They are very silly and will benefit no one. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Popat, can respond to that, hopefully in a positive way. My noble friend Lord Monks talked about respect and treating other people as you would want to be treated yourself. It is really important that negotiations and discussions are always held in that way.

In conclusion, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, for initiating this debate. I wish him well in his endeavours. Like my noble friend Lady Dean, I hope that this is the first of many debates on these issues. I think also that we would all agree that in the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, the noble Lord has a very welcome ally in the Conservative Party.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

I am sorry to interrupt but the Minister is not going to be able to respond to all the questions that I asked in the next couple of minutes. Therefore, will he respond to those he can and give a commitment to write to noble Lords on the points he will not be able to cover and place a copy of the letter in the Library of the House?

[Lord Popat]

I will certainly do that and place a copy in the Library. The noble Lord, Lord Morris, raised the very important issue of blacklisting trade unionists. The Government are clear that blacklisting is an unacceptable and illegal practice. We take any allegation of this practice very seriously. Indeed, the Secretary of State has asked anyone who has information about this practice still going on to get in touch with the relevant authorities. The Employment Relations Act 1999 (Blacklists) Regulations 2010 make it unlawful.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked whether the Government can work with the trade unions. Of course, we can work with the trade unions. The Government believe that trade unions have a key role to play in resolving workplace disputes. Representation in the workplace reduces voluntary exit by employees by about 5% to 10%, which helps business retain key skills. The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, also asked about the health and safety performance of the agricultural sector. I have covered health and safety, but I do not have agriculture on my brief and I will have to write to the noble Lord.

The noble Baroness, Lady Dean, mentioned workers’ participation, and having share ownership schemes. I believe there are many companies that have share ownership schemes. This is up to individual companies and employees to agree upon. My brief does not say what government policy is on this, but I would be happy to write to the noble Baroness.