Prisons: Safety and Security

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Harris of Haringey

Wednesday 21st December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

We are clearly of the view that we should seek non-custodial sentences wherever possible—but, of course, the facilities to support that must be available. Criticisms were levelled recently at certain aspects of the probation service, which remains so important to that element of non-custodial work. Nevertheless, we want to see this expanded, maintained and improved.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, serious concerns were raised by the independent monitoring board in respect of conditions at Her Majesty’s Prison Birmingham. Were the concerns in that report flagged up to Ministers? What consideration was given to reports from other independent monitoring boards highlighting similar conditions in other prisons? Finally, are Ministers considering giving greater independence and authority to independent monitoring boards, perhaps by making them accountable through Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

Both Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons and the independent monitoring board reports reflect the challenges that have built up in our prisons and prison estate over many years. In respect of that, we have now announced a comprehensive programme of reform.

Prisons: Self-inflicted Deaths

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Harris of Haringey

Thursday 3rd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)]

My Lords, safety in prisons is a vital part of our reform plans. The Justice Secretary will shortly provide details of the prison reform programme in the other place. This will build on her previous commitment to invest £14 million to provide more than 400 extra staff in 10 prisons and the £10 million of new funding that is giving governors the ability to improve safety in their establishments.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure we are all delighted to hear of the extra staff who will go into prisons but does the Minister not accept that you would have to have four times the number quoted in today’s newspapers and on the radio simply to achieve the same prisoner to staff ratio that existed in 2010? No doubt he will be aware of the inquest, which concluded yesterday, into the death of Levi Cronin at Her Majesty’s Prison Highpoint. He was a 26 year-old who was sentenced for bike theft and then killed himself. The inquest jury found a,

“series of interconnected system inadequacies and failures”,

including insufficient recording of information, insufficient communication, inadequate staffing levels, and inadequate support and supervision. Exactly how does the Minister think it will be possible to deliver the sort of personalised care and support that are necessary in the absence of better staffing levels, which the announcement today does not seem likely to deliver?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, it is not appropriate to draw an immediate comparison with staffing levels in 2010. Since 2010 a number of prison establishments have been closed down, leading to a reduction in the number of staff. In addition, we have introduced a benchmark standard—which the noble Lord, Lord Harris, referred to in his own report—to address the question of staff. It is a matter not just of staff numbers but of recruitment and retention. There are wider issues that have to be addressed in that context.

Of course, prisoner care is paramount in our consideration. Indeed, in 2015 the National Offender Management Service reviewed the assessment, care in custody and teamwork case management system. It made 20 recommendations, which will be fully implemented by March 2017. In addition, we intend to give every prisoner a dedicated officer who can engage with them on a one-to-one basis.

Investigatory Powers Bill

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Harris of Haringey

Tuesday 19th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I listened very carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, and his explanation of his amendments, but I was not at all convinced. If we believe that there is a need for the Bill, which I do, but have reservations about some of the issues around encryption, we have to ensure that the relevant agencies have some tools in their kit box. One of those tools has to be the ability to interfere with or look at the specific equipment. What the noble Lord is trying to do is to restrict the availability of that power to such an extent that it would effectively become almost useless. It would simply be available if you have one named individual. Therefore surely it is right that a significantly broader power should be available to engage here.

The question that the Minister who is going to respond needs to answer is this: how will the test of proportionality be applied in such cases? Presumably it is not proportionate to have such a broad sweep contained within the authorisation that it is inappropriate and overly onerous. The mechanism is therefore this: how is it determined that this is a proportionate and proper use of the power, and can we and the public be reassured that the mechanisms exist to ensure that that proportionality is adhered to?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to noble Lords. I know that these are probing amendments and I shall address them in that light. Of course some of these amendments were discussed in the other place and, as noted, were considered again by this Committee in the context of interception.

Amendments 158D to 158M and 169B to 169T would remove the ability of the warrant-requesting agencies to apply for a warrant against an organisation, a group of persons with a common purpose, or a group of persons carrying out the same activity. They would require a warrant to name or identify each person or piece of equipment to which the warrant relates and they would remove the ability to obtain warrants for testing and training activity. As I have already set out when we considered similar amendments in the context of interception, it is important that those responsible for keeping us safe have the powers they need. These amendments would undermine their ability to employ those powers.

Let me start with the amendments regarding unique identifiers. As I explained in the context of interception warrants, it is not always possible at the outset of an investigation to know or have identified all of the individuals who may be subject to a warrant over the course of that investigation. The example of a kidnap gang applies to equipment interference just as it applies to interception. When a warrant is granted against a gang, the person applying for the warrant may not know that there are four members of the gang rather than three. The ability to grant a warrant against the gang in order to establish its size and to identify co-conspirators is precisely why the Bill provides for thematic warrants. Thematic warrants are already available to the equipment interference agencies under the Intelligence Services Act 1994 and the Police Act 1997 and they are invaluable when investigating complex or fast-moving threats. It is right that the Bill should not undermine their ability to do this.

I would seek to reassure your Lordships that the Bill already provides in Clause 107 that the warrant has to describe the relevant persons, locations, activity or groups and the type of equipment to which the warrant relates in so far as it is reasonably practicable to do so. This is an important safeguard which will assist the oversight of thematic targeted warrants. The Investigatory Powers Tribunal recently considered the use of equipment interference in this way. It determined that,

“a warrant is lawful if it is as specific as possible in relation to the property to be covered by the warrant”,

and that,

“it need not be defined by reference to named or identified individuals”.

Let me turn to the amendments that seek to remove the ability to grant a warrant relating to particular subject matters. This was also discussed at some length in the other place and very recently in this Committee, again in the context of interception. Such a change would be operationally damaging and is moreover unnecessary. The Bill and the statutory code of practice impose strict limits on the issue of warrants, including in relation to organisations or groups of persons. I should emphasise that such warrants are not open-ended. Their scope must be sufficiently limited that the issuing authority can properly assess the necessity and proportionality of the interference. Further, under the Bill a judicial commissioner will need to approve the issuing authority’s decision. So the clause does not allow for overly broad warrants to be issued. Moreover, removing the ability to seek warrants against persons carrying out the same activity could prohibit the agencies from, for example, seeking a warrant against individuals accessing a particular website in order to access child abuse images. In such cases it is vital that law enforcement should be able to identify suspects and bring them to justice.

Hate Crime

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Harris of Haringey

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

Yes.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, it is not simply a question of the referendum campaign making xenophobia and racism respectable again; this is also the responsibility of the Minister’s right honourable friends in the other place who have consistently pandered to this in exactly the same way—for example, the right honourable Theresa May and the campaigns run by the Home Office against illegal immigrants. The Prime Minister’s intervention in the mayoral election in London, talking about extremists, was all part of the same picture. Is there not a pattern which has led to this increase in xenophobic incidents in the last few weeks?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

With respect to the noble Lord, nothing makes xenophobia and racism respectable, least of all the referendum.

Police: Armed Officers

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Harris of Haringey

Wednesday 8th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In so doing, I draw attention to my interests in the register. I should also point out that since I tabled this Question I have acquired a new interest: to conduct a review on behalf of the Mayor of London into London’s preparedness in the event of a major terrorist incident.

[The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)]

My Lords, on 31 March 2010 there were 6,976 authorised firearms officers in England and Wales, and on 31 March 2015 there were 5,647. Statistics showing the number of authorised firearms officers as of 31 March 2016 will be published on 28 July 2016.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, as ever, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his reply. In that context, can he confirm that the uplift announced by the Prime Minister in the number of armed officers will barely take the total number of Home Office-approved firearms officers up to the level that it was in 2010? Can he also comment on the fact that the other forces which would act in support of the police in the event of a major incident have suffered very substantial cuts? For example, the Ministry of Defence Police lost 1,000 officers as a result of the 2010 strategic defence and security review and is now scheduled to lose another 600, bringing it down to 2,000 when it is expected to provide 700 armed officers in the event of a major incident.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

This has to be put into context.

Immigration: Public Services

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Harris of Haringey

Tuesday 10th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the Government are completely reforming the immigration system, cutting abuse and focusing on attracting the brightest and the best. Since 2010, reforms have cut abuse in the student and family visa systems and raised standards in the work routes. In addition, of course, our recent negotiations in Europe have brought to fruition the provision of new settlement agreements for EU migrants, with the requirement for a seven-year emergency brake being in place.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has told us how wonderful the Government’s investment in public services is—apparently to meet all the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Vinson. Could he then explain, for example, why there is a shortage of primary school places in London, why our health service in so many areas is in crisis and why there is a problem with social care beds becoming unviable? Why is all that happening if the Government’s policies towards the public services have been so benign?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

It takes time to recover from the experience that we had up until 2010, but major steps are being taken. The Government are committed to investing £7 billion in school places by 2021, to increasing NHS funding in England by £10 billion in real terms by 2020 and to investing £20 billion in housing in the next five years, including £8 billion in affordable housing.

Banks: Fraud

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Harris of Haringey

Thursday 5th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

There is the question of our status, which banks are addressing, but I am not in a position to say how that is to be resolved.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chair of the National Trading Standards Board, which works in this area. Can the Minister tell us what steps are being taken to deal with the problems that exist from the trading of victims’ lists—suckers’ lists—between scammers? The estimate is that there are several hundred thousand, primarily elderly, people whose names are on those lists and who are seen as soft targets by criminal gangs. Within the work that the noble and learned Lord has outlined, what steps are being taken to deal with that problem?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Lord. Action Fraud, which is the central reporting point in fraud and cybercrime, is liaising with Victim Support to address the problems for particularly vulnerable persons. That work is being taken forward under the cybersecurity programme.

Investigatory Powers Bill

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Harris of Haringey

Wednesday 27th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I entirely concur with the noble Lord. There must be no dark pools in which these criminals and terrorists can operate.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister did not like the question that the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, put to him. However, there is a real issue here: if the encryption keys are weakened because the companies concerned know they might be asked to release them under certain properly moderated circumstances, they will also have been weakened for other people who wish to do harm by breaching privacy, intellectual property and so on. What assessment have the Government made of how to mitigate that and to balance those two conflicting objectives?

Immigration Bill

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Harris of Haringey

Tuesday 12th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

If I was in a position to make the statement today, I am sure the noble Lord appreciates that I would do so. He may be familiar with the wheels of government and with the requirement for these matters to be approved at various levels before a final statement is made. If I was in a position to make that statement, I reassure the noble Lord that I would not hesitate to make it.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

But this is Third Reading. Is there not a sense of urgency in these matters?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

There is certainly a sense of urgency in this matter and that is why I expressed my apology to the House and the noble Baroness, Lady Lister. I had indicated that by Third Reading I would be in a position to confirm the Government’s position on this. However, it is a matter that requires detailed consideration. It is a matter that has ramifications. It is a matter that has to be considered in conjunction with Home Office guidelines. It is a matter that must be consulted on and finally approved before issue, and it is for that reason that, regrettably, there has been a period of delay in respect of this point.

I underline that it will not involve an absolute prohibition. It will, however, involve a very limited power of detention to be exercised only in exceptional circumstances and for a very limited period. That is what is anticipated at present. As I sought to point out on Report, it is simply not practicable to have an absolute bar in respect of pregnant women. There are circumstances in which, for example, a pregnant woman arriving at an airport or a port, clearly with no right at all to enter the United Kingdom, may present either a security risk or a risk of absconding, and without any power of detention it would be quite impossible to arrange her return at that time of arrival. Therefore, in these circumstances, I urge the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.