Medicines and Medical Devices Bill

Lord Kakkar Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 26th October 2020 Grand Committee

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I wholeheartedly support Amendment 74 and similar amendments in this group. Nothing is more important than safety in all medicines and medical devices. First Do No Harm, the excellent report by the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, highlights that patients should be listened to. They are the people taking medicines and using medical devices. In the last few months, coronavirus has cast a shadow over other needs, but safety is paramount for everyone. Masks and all PPE are in demand worldwide. Has the UK got an ongoing adequate supply?

The correct dressings for patients with wounds is an important safety issue. There is a lack of tissue viability nurses to give expert advice in rural areas. If NHS trusts and CCGs had joint working in local areas, this would increase capacity and save resources. If the correct treatment is not given, there can be long-term problems.

Patient safety will be improved if patient experience is listened to. Patient groups, academic researchers and medical research charities should work together to find the best solutions. Some of the technologies for blind people and people with speech problems are amazing. It is essential for the safety of patients that all staff and patients using medical devices should be trained in their use. A medical device turned off when it should be on can cause a disaster; the wrong substance in a drip can be fatal; and not listening to patients or their families about allergic reactions to medication, with doctors ignoring this information and prescribing the wrong medicine, can be a serious safety issue.

I hope that the Minister agrees that safety in everything should be paramount and should be the overriding consideration of this Bill. I hope that the Minister will do his very best to help with this matter.

[Lord Kakkar (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I would like to support Amendments 10, 12, 74 and 75, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, and in so doing recognise the very powerful and thoughtful interventions by many noble Lords on this group.

It is clear that there is really no dispute in recognising that safety, availability and attractiveness are all important elements in securing, promoting and safeguarding public health. The question simply is whether safety should be given priority. The report of the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, is clear in having identified, in a number of specific instances, why the system failed because safety was not at the forefront of the obligation and, in particular, the regulatory obligation.

The question is how best to ensure safety going forwards when as a country we have the opportunity to establish a new regulatory environment for medicines, medical devices and veterinary medical products. The four amendments in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, and other noble Lords provide the opportunity to explore the Government’s thinking in this regard.

Why would Her Majesty’s Government not prioritise safety over the other two important objectives? The noble Lord, Lord O’Shaughnessy, in his thoughtful intervention, has suggested that there may be potential for patients to be denied experimental or targeted interventions as the result of inadvertent limitation by way of the regulatory regimen. At present, of course, we have the capacity to intervene with such medicinal products to ensure that, where it is appropriate, sensible and in the interests of the individual patient, interventions can be provided with less extensive clinical evaluation. However, as a general rule, for the entirety of the population where there is broad and relatively unfettered prescription, surely it is right that fellow citizens should expect that interventions—medicinal or medical devices—that are available to their clinicians for a prescription in their individual cases are, first and foremost, safe.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

We seem to have lost the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar.

[Lord Kakkar (CB) [V]]

Or is it that in some way—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

Lord Kakkar, please keep going. We lost you for a minute.

[Lord Kakkar (CB) [V]]

Is the Minister able to indicate why there might be anxiety about giving priority to safety? Is it because methodology by way of clinical trials evaluation is not sufficiently well developed to make that a statutory principle for the availability of medicinal products or medical devices? Is it that there might be some basis for legal challenge that would make this ill-advised? If not, it appears that putting safety at the forefront is in the interests of patients, our healthcare system, clinicians and the standing of our country as a place to lead in the development of the life sciences.

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad to have the opportunity to contribute to this important debate, to which I have very much appreciated listening. I want to talk about Amendments 10, 12, 74 and 75, in the name of my noble friend Lady Cumberlege, on which I think I very much follow and share the views of the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar.

We are all agreed about what we are trying to achieve at this stage; the issue is how we go about putting it into effect in this Bill. My first point is on patient safety. In the excellent report of my noble friend Lady Cumberlege and her colleagues, what I read is the imperative to minimise harm and to stop avoidable harm. It is clear in the report that stopping avoidable harm is what is being sought and I am assuming that that is what is meant by the proposition that we must make patient safety a prime consideration. In my view, we are all agreed that patient safety is a consideration above those of availability of medicines and the attractiveness of the United Kingdom as a place for life sciences. I do not object to that; I think that that must be true. Indeed, as a number of noble Lords have said, the achievement of a regulatory regime that properly prioritises the safety of patients is absolutely right.

However, when we think about how we translate that into law, we have to look at all the considerations for a medicines regulator. Let me take two angles on that. First, what do my noble friend Lady Cumberlege and her colleagues expect the MHRA to do? In their report, they say that they expect the MHRA to engage with patients and understand better patient-reported outcomes and patient-reported experiences in order better to be able to assess the benefits and risks of the medicines that it regulates—I emphasise “benefits and risks”, not just risks. In that sense, I want the legislation to tell the MHRA that that is indeed what it should be doing.

Secondly, we start with the medicines regulations that we have from the European Union. To some extent, as noble Lords will have gathered from my incorporation of the phrase “safeguard public health” into Amendment 5, which we debated last week, I think that that proposition enables that consideration by the regulator to be incorporated into its operations. It should be there. Otherwise, how can safeguarding public health be demonstrated if one is not properly assessing both the benefits and risks of new medicines?

Indeed, one of the early paragraphs of EU directive 2001/83/EC on medicines for human use says:

“The concepts of harmfulness and therapeutic efficacy can only be examined in relation to each other”.


The end of the paragraph says that applications for marketing authorisation for a medicinal product must

“demonstrate that potential risks are outweighed by the therapeutic efficacy of the product.”

For this reason I wanted to incorporate safety and therapeutic efficacy in an early draft of my Amendment 5, since both are essential. It is correct to prioritise safety over availability, attractiveness or other considerations, but to attach to patient safety the proposition that it is an overriding consideration seems wrong. It is not an overriding consideration; it is an essential one, alongside the therapeutic efficacy of the current or new intervention being examined, whether a device or medicine.

That is not reflected in the amendment’s language at this stage, entirely due to where we are in Committee: we should understand that and decide how to capture that thought. It might be that we have done it already by capturing the proposition of safeguarding public health—in my view we have. However, we should make safety not an overriding consideration but a primary consideration for the medicines regulator. That is a difference. Perhaps my noble friend Lady Cumberlege and the Minister might like to think hard about how we might reflect that.

Finally, I think Hippocrates would agree. “Do no harm” is of course not in the Hippocratic oath, but it derives from Of the Epidemics, in which he wrote,

“have two special objects in view with regard to disease, namely, to do good or to do no harm.”

The two must be together. The medicines regulatory system must ensure that we can do good through better outcomes for our medicines and devices, but also do no harm.