Digital Government (Disclosure of Information) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Lord Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 18th October 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that introduction and explanation. There is very wide support for the extension of childcare. Indeed, I have always believed that structured play and social engagement for young children is beneficial. Very early on in my political career, I campaigned successfully for increased funding for playgroups and for the extension of nursery-year schools in my area—I might say against campaigns from other political parties that were less supportive.

The basic understanding of the consultation is that it is overwhelmingly supported because of the objective, but there are perhaps one or two wrinkles worth pointing out. First, in that context, all children and all families are different, so there should not be a presumption that every child must or should go to childcare or nursery education between the ages of two and five. It should be a choice for the family and the parents, and sometimes there is pressure that is not appreciated.

Looking at some of the responses to the consultation, they were, I accept, overwhelmingly supportive across the piece—as the Minister pointed out—but large statistics still cover small minorities of concern. Taking one section as an example, 55% of respondents said that they saw no risk of loss of benefits; that means a pretty substantial minority were concerned that there might be. Does the Minister have any information on how that could come about and what the risks were? In the same category, 64% of respondents saw no risk of a loss of access to services, but that leaves a significant minority concerned that there might be. While in no way detracting from the very targeted purpose and desirability of this overall, and the general support for it, there needs to be recognition that there will be people for whom this raises some concerns.

Coming on to the specifics of the actual data-sharing, the Minister was careful to acknowledge that, by definition, data collected for one purpose being used for another is very much of concern. When people give information, they need to know what it is for and not to find it has been used for something they did not expect. In that context, it seems that the relationship between the Government, local authorities and all the relevant agencies needs to be sensitively handled. Think of a family who are struggling: if somebody rocks up at their door saying, “We have data to suggest this”, it could create a sense of threat or concern because we are, by definition, talking about vulnerable communities. What provision is there for ensuring that there is co-ordination and the best networking to get the most sensitive application of this and the desired result? The desired result should surely be that every child whose parents wish it and who qualifies should be found and given the opportunity to benefit from the care and support that is on offer and paid for.

Finally, it is interesting that devolution lives within this instrument, and I have no problem with that. But there was a point in a debate last week, which I unfortunately could not attend because I was speaking in the Chamber, where the Scottish Government were again asking the UK Government for assistance in collecting data. Again, I have no problem with it but it raises the question of what the capacity of the Scottish Government is or should be, or, indeed, why on earth they need a separate capacity if there is a perfectly adequate UK-wide system that they can access, subject to the appropriate safeguards.

The people of Scotland have voted more than once for devolution. They have never voted for independence, but you would hardly know that when you talk to Scottish Government Ministers, who have a great reluctance to admit publicly that devolution has any merit—never mind that it applies the will of the Scottish people, while they frustrate that will by promoting something the people do not want. In the meantime, this co-operation across the UK in data-sharing for legitimate purposes seems efficient and sensible and, in that context, I am happy to support the instrument from these Benches.

[Lord Jones (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his patient and courteous exposition. I rise essentially as a matter of principle, because these regulations rattle through so often when they are so important. Briefly, in the helpful explanatory pages I note that he has consulted Welsh and Scottish Ministers. The Explanatory Notes have this important Scottish example, which gives the regulations a very human form. My question to him is: how were the consultations carried out? Were they digital or personal? He might be able to give some indication of whether they were effective consultations. Might he also instance an example of an action or objective concerning Wales or England? The Scottish one was fine, but are there others that come to his mind?