NHS Counter Fraud Authority (Establishment, Constitution, and Staff and Other Transfer Provisions) (Amendment) Order 2020

Lord Jones Excerpts

Monday 7th September 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Jones (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introductory remarks, his comprehensive review and his brevity. I support the order. The NHS has been magnificent at tackling Covid-19. Perhaps we should consider striking medals for that army of devoted NHS servants. I was a Health Minister in three Administrations. There was fraud in those far-off days; there is fraud now. Ministerial intervention was not effective then; my colleagues and I did not stamp out fraud. The Minister now is finding fraud to be resilient if he seeks a renewed continuation of the NHS Counter Fraud Authority. Surely he is engaged in a positive, considered and professional reactive policy.

I could say that a distinguished Chief Medical Officer said in my hearing that in this respect, the NHS is a monster and it has got a brain. The Minister has a more positive attitude than that exasperated senior official, the Chief Medical Officer. The noble Lord, Lord Lawson, got it right when he ventured to say most positively that the NHS is the nation’s religion. Certainly, it is a great NHS: that is absolutely certain.

I have some brief questions for the Minister. How many prosecutions for fraud were there in each of the years 2018 and 2019? How many successful prosecutions were there in those years? By what process are prosecutions initiated? With reference to paragraph 7.2 in our helpful notes, does his department have an estimate in money terms of the amount of fraud currently under way? How does his department gather and seek such information? Given the large sums of fraudulent moneys that have been discovered to be involved, will he consider enlarging the budget of the authority for better and ever more effective working? How many staff are engaged in the authority? Perhaps the Minister will give the name of the current chair or director of the authority and indicate the salary paid annually to that person. In conclusion, congratulations must go to the authority on saving the sums of money already indicated.