Community Drivers’ Hours Offences (Enforcement) Regulations 2017

Lord Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Grand Committee

Of course, in the UK as a whole, as well as in Ireland, there will be an adverse impact on working conditions for drivers, and very significantly on road safety, if the Government do not maintain the standards on this and keep in step. It would be curious at the least if, by abandoning these rules and the cross-border co-operation they intrinsically involve, we allowed drivers on to our roads while ignoring the hours they had driven before they entered the UK. I invite the Minister to reassure us that the Government intend to keep absolutely in step with these rules, now and in future. It is not a case of wishing to get even better than the rest of the EU. The important thing is that we have the same rules so that drivers understand and can follow those rules as they go from one part of Ireland to another—from the EU into the UK.

[Lord Jones (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her very clear explanation. Listening to the remarks of the noble Baroness who has just taken her seat, I was reminded of the high reputation she had in the Welsh Assembly as a Minister.

The helpful Explanatory Note refers to,

“rules about periods of driving, rests and breaks for drivers of specified vehicles undertaking international carriage of goods and passengers”.

Road safety requires these rules, that is for sure. I note the reference to “international carriage of goods”. My question is: are the Government doing enough to collect the fines from drivers who have being doing things wrongly on our roads but who then go back to Europe? Often they do not pay up. If you talk to magistrates, they will say that that is the case. Have the Government any statistics on the fines not paid by drivers from overseas?

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

I, too, thank the Minister for explaining the purpose and content of the SI. We certainly support its objectives. I have some points to raise about the Explanatory Note and Explanatory Memorandum. I would be more than happy to have a written reply if the Minister is not in a position to respond to some or all of them now.

At least one or two of the points are probably driven as much by ignorance on my part as anything else. Can I clarify to whom the order applies? Is it only to,

“drivers of specified vehicles undertaking international carriage of goods and passengers”,

as referred to in the first paragraph of the Explanatory Note at the end of the draft statutory instrument, or does the order apply to,

“drivers engaged in the carriage of goods and passengers by road”

as referred to in paragraph 4.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum—apparently without any stipulation that it applies only to the international carriage of goods and passengers?

What is the position of drivers of vehicles undertaking national as opposed to international carriage of goods and passengers? Are they covered by similar requirements about periods of driving rests and breaks and can they already be issued with a fixed penalty notice for an offence suspected of being committed within 28 days prior to detection, or only one committed at the time they are detected?

I ask that point to clarify whether the order does or does not mean that we are treating drivers of vehicles involved in international carriage of goods and passengers differently from those involved in national carriage of goods and passengers in this country in respect of fixed penalty notices referred to in the order.

The Explanatory Memorandum refers in paragraph 2.1 to “on-the-spot” penalties being,

“available to enforcement officers when taking action in respect of both UK and non-UK drivers when they detect an infringement of certain Community drivers’ hours rules out of GB”.

In that context, I also raise a point that has just been raised by my noble friend Lord Jones: if a non-UK driver does not pay their fixed penalty notice on the spot for an offence suspected to have been committed within 28 days prior to detection, what does present evidence available indicate is the likelihood of that fine being paid in whole, and what are the costs of securing payment of such outstanding fines?

The Explanatory Memorandum does not give any indication of the likely number of cases that will no longer be coming to court, although it does refer to court proceedings being “costly and relatively cumbersome”. How many cases will no longer be coming to court that currently do so, as a result of the order, and at what saving? Likewise, how many more offences is it considered will be pursued through fixed penalty notices now enabled under this order which would not have been pursued through court proceedings due to their being “costly and relatively cumbersome”?

Paragraph 8.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum refers to the assurances being sought by two trade associations. One of them appears to be that,

“enforcement officers would focus on serious offences and not penalise all minor offences”.

My comment relates to all the issues on which assurances were being sought, as referred to in paragraph 8.2. I would like to know what way forward was agreed to in follow-up meetings. All that is said in paragraph 8.2 is that:

“These concerns were addressed and a way forward agreed in follow-up meetings”.


What was the way forward agreed and what are the assurances that have been given in relation to the issues raised by the two trade associations and set out in paragraph 8.2? I also ask the question that was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson—in considerably more detail than I intend to do, since I do not wish to repeat points that she has made. I, too, would like to know, since the order apparently does not apply to Northern Ireland, what is—and what will be—the position in Northern Ireland in relation to the issues addressed by this order and, indeed, to the rather wider issues referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, in her comments?

As I said at the beginning, I am more than happy if the Minister wishes to send a written response to the questions that I have raised.