Draft National Policy Statement for Waste Water

Lord Henley Excerpts

Tuesday 5th April 2011 Grand Committee

Moved By

[Lord Henley]

That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Draft National Policy Statement for Waste Water.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Henley)]

My Lords, the Planning Act 2008 enables a Secretary of State to designate a national policy statement which sets out the national policies which drive the need for particular types of development. National policy statements are the key documents used by the Infrastructure Planning Commission and its successor, the Major Infrastructure Planning Unit, to determine or make recommendations on applications for development consent.

The draft National Policy Statement for Waste Water is based on advice provided by the Environment Agency and reviewed by Ofwat as part of the Environment Agency’s national environment programme. It sets out the policy framework for new infrastructure based on current statutory requirements and environmental considerations. We have worked closely with the Department for Communities and Local Government to ensure that the waste water national policy statement is fit for purpose and consistent with other national policy statements.

Waste water infrastructure is necessary as, without suitable treatment, the waste water we produce every day would damage the water environment and create problems for public health, water resources and wildlife. Proper collection, treatment and discharge of waste water and correct disposal of the resulting sludge help to protect and improve water quality in the United Kingdom.

The draft national policy statement has been subject to an appraisal of sustainability and a habitats regulations assessment. The appraisal of sustainability is required by the Planning Act and helps to ensure that national policy statements and the Government’s assessment of sites take account of environmental, social and economic considerations, and contribute to sustainable development. The habitats regulations assessment considers whether the national policy statement is likely to have an adverse impact on particular habitats which are protected under European law.

The draft waste water national policy statement details two projects of national significance; these are the sewage treatment works scheme at Deephams in north-east London and the Thames Tunnel, which is a sewage collection and transfer scheme. The justification for both these developments and the alternatives considered are fully explained in the national policy statement.

Consultation on the national policy statement ended on 22 February this year. Officials are currently considering responses and they are discussing the results with policy-makers and stakeholders. The report on the draft national policy statement from the Select Committee in another place has been published today. This provides some useful recommendations, which offer some degree of support to the policy framework in the national policy statement. We will consider carefully the report and the issues raised by your Lordships in this debate, taking due account of them when revising the national policy statement prior to designation. However, this is not the last opportunity for people to have their say. Developers must consult communities before submitting an application to the Infrastructure Planning Commission, and people will have the chance to provide input at application stage. This consultation has provided people with a chance to shape the guidance that the Infrastructure Planning Commission will use to inform its decisions.

We are not here to debate how the schemes detailed in the national policy statement may be delivered. Our purpose is to discuss whether the draft national policy statement fulfils its requirements under the Planning Act 2008 and is therefore fit for purpose. The draft national policy statement is critical in bringing forward infrastructure developments and ensuring that the right framework is used in the consideration of development consents. I strongly believe that the draft waste water national policy statement provides robust justification for the new infrastructure proposed. I welcome today’s debate and look forward to responding to the points raised by noble Lords. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, a large number of questions have been raised and I will address as many as possible. I will start by echoing what the noble Baroness said about the importance of dealing with waste water, not only in terms of improving our water quality but in terms of health. One only has to walk down the Embankment—I forget where exactly it is—to see the memorial to that great Victorian engineer, Bazalgette, and to remember that the work of such engineers saved far more lives than any doctors have ever managed to do. For that, we should be grateful and we should also be grateful for the excellent work of those Victorian engineers and for how long what they made has lasted; however, improvements still have to be made in due course. I also echo what the noble Baroness said about how important these matters can be in terms of climate change.

I remind the noble Baroness that, at this stage, the NPS is only a draft. We have had the consultation, and the report that came out only today from the EFRA Select Committee in another place, and we are now having this debate. We are very grateful for the EFRA Committee’s report. It will be considered in due course and we will make an appropriate response. I have to say that it was purely fortuitous that it happened to come out today, the day on which the usual channels had scheduled this debate. However, that is a matter for the usual channels and, as we know, even Homer occasionally nods, and obviously the usual channels did not get it exactly right, but we may have other opportunities in due course.

The noble Baroness also had some complaints about our departmental website and its definitions of sustainability. I offer her, at some stage, a teach-in on the subject, in which officials will take her through the Defra website and thus I hope that we will make some progress in dealing with these matters and that that will assist the noble Baroness. However, as she is a former Minister—I cannot remember whether it was in Defra or one of its predecessors, MAFF—she will understand that one cannot get everything absolutely right, but I am sure that officials will be more than delighted to give her that training.

The noble Baroness reminded us that the Select Committee in another place would have liked a higher profile for the consultation which ended on 29 February. I have to say mea culpa, if not for myself then for one of my colleagues. We will try to ensure that an appropriate profile is given to such matters in the future.

As regards the noble Baroness’s question about the drop-in sessions on 31 January and 1 February, they were attended by quite a number of members of the public and boroughs, particularly the London boroughs. However, the events were about the NPS only, and site-specific issues will be covered later by the developers. We received some 43 responses, overall, to the whole consultation and those will be considered in due course.

The noble Baroness then discussed the comments of the EFRA Committee’s report on the format of the document—that half of it was generic and half specific to the two sites that we have been talking about. I have a sneaking feeling that, if we had made it totally generic and had not mentioned those two large sites, there would also have been complaints that we had not included them. It is always difficult to get the balance right on this. It is possible that the suggestion of moving them into some appendix would be appropriate, but I doubt it. We are certainly happy with what we have done but, again, I emphasise the fact that this is only a draft.

The noble Baroness then moved on to the specific London schemes and asked whether they were a fait accompli and definitely what we were going to do. She also raised questions about the costs and why they had increased. As she knows, there is a definite and established need for a solution to the sewage overflows. The report looked at the problems and found that a tunnel is the only solution—that was back in 2005 and nothing has changed since then. However, while the need for a tunnel is established, the route has yet to be finalised and that means that there may be a number of different routes and means of building tunnels. As she said, in terms of the objections, it is often during the construction phase that most of them will arise. Thames Water will be working on those options and is consulting widely. However, I can well understand that some people—the noble Baroness mentioned a number of celebrities who objected to it—have concerns because of the disruption at the construction phase. I have recently been down to Brighton, where I have seen another similar quite large project beginning to come to a conclusion, but that took some 14 years, I am told, in the planning process, because of all the objections and concerns from people from Brighton and all the towns along the coast to the east about how these matters were being dealt with. However, in the end, I think they will find that they have much cleaner seas and better water, and they will be grateful for what has happened, and I think the same will be true for what the Government are proposing.

I appreciate that the costs have gone up. Some of that is due to what I am told is referred to as an optimism bias. The original costs were produced in 2007, and we have moved on four years. The noble Baroness will be well aware of how costs can rise, particularly when the preferred route has changed and the original estimates did not include costs for that optimism bias.

I am grateful that the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, agreed that we had included these two projects, because it is important to do so. He then asked whether other schemes would be appearing in due course and if so, how often they would appear. All I can say is that we do not think that any are likely to be considered in the next five years. Five years is, therefore, about as long as these sorts of policy statements should continue. We will respond to those matters in due course as other projects come on stream and as we develop new policy statements.

The noble Lord then talked, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, about the danger of infraction proceedings. I am pleased to say that I do not think that the United Kingdom Government have yet been fined at any stage for infraction of directives of one sort or another, but it is obviously a real risk. It is important to ensure that we are moving as fast as we can to do what we can to achieve the right objectives. The plans that we have made to ensure that the tunnel is built will mean that we are complying with the directive. I hope that the commission will take that into account in due course.

My noble friend Lord Teverson also asked why we included Thames Water when it does not meet the requirements in terms of size. My understanding was that although tunnels are not necessarily caught by the thresholds in the Act, which cover only water treatment works, it would be appropriate to include them on this occasion because of the large numbers of people affected. Noble Lords would have found it odd had we not included them.

This brings me to the last point I want to make, on the question asked by my noble friend Lord Dixon-Smith about why our definition as to who is included only included those projects affecting above 500,000 people and not some figure below that. He suggested, possibly rightly, that one should lower the threshold to 250,000 people or some other figure. At the moment, 500,000 is the figure imposed by the Act. We might want to look at it again in due course. I give no guarantee to my noble friend, but it should always remain under review if appropriate and if we are finding these matters difficult. For the moment, we feel that 500,000 is about the right figure. It is the figure selected by the previous Government when they passed the 2008 Act.

I do not know whether I have dealt with every single question. If I have not, I certainly offer to write to noble Lords to deal with these matters. I emphasise what I said at the beginning: this is only a draft statement. We have had the report from the EFRA Committee. We are still considering the results of the consultation that closed in February. Before we produce the final statement, there are the parliamentary hoops that have to be gone through. We will consider all the points that have been made by noble Lords in the debate this afternoon.

Motion agreed.