HMS “Victory”

Lord Greenway Excerpts

Wednesday 28th November 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Greenway]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chairman for the past 10 years of the World Ship Trust, an organisation given over to encouraging the preservation of old vessels around the world. What we are discussing today is slightly different because we do not normally get involved in wrecks. I am delighted to add an independent voice in support of the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Renfrew.

The area where HMS “Victory” sank is a particularly deep part of the channel. It is subject to very strong tides. The wreck, as such, no longer exists, and the contents of the ships are dispersed over a fairly wide area. I believe that an element of haste came into this because the area is heavily fished and there was a danger of the artefacts being damaged by bottom-trawling.

I certainly share the concerns of all those who have spoken. The American company Odyssey, which discovered the wreck in international waters, leaves us with a bit of a conundrum here. It was a British ship but, as the noble Lord, Lord Renfrew, says, we have to treat this as a test case, because there are many other wrecks. If you look at a chart of the English Channel between where the remains of this vessel lie and, say, the Scilly Isles, you will see that there are dozens and dozens of wrecks. We do not want to set a precedent for this sort of action. I am also slightly worried because we have a lot of technical expertise in undersea work, a lot of it coming out of North Sea oil exploration. I recall, only a few years ago, when the Russians were having trouble with a sunken submarine in the Pacific, it was a British submarine that was flown out there and managed to rescue the sailors from under the sea. We do not lack this technology. Why could this not have been done by a British company? That would have been so much better, in my opinion, in this instance.

By pure chance, I was lunching today with the director of what used to be the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich, which is now part of Royal Museums Greenwich. He, like me, was absolutely appalled with what was going on, as was a former First Sea Lord, who was also lunching. Before lunch, I had another meeting with the director of National Historic Ships UK, who was equally appalled. We could not think what the Ministry of Defence was up to in the first instance here.

I add my support and will be very interested to hear what the Minister has to say. However, before I sit down, I will answer the noble Lord, Lord Addington, who asked me what “leeward” means. When a ship drifts to leeward, it basically drifts downwind. On that note, I will sit down.