Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Lord Geddes Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2012 Grand Committee

Committee (3rd Day)

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Geddes)]

My Lords, as is usual on these occasions, I have to advise the Grand Committee that if there is a Division in the Chamber we will adjourn for 10 minutes. I am told that there is likely to be a Division so we may be adjourning quite soon.

Clause 14 : Power of employment tribunal to impose financial penalty on employers etc

Amendment 20L

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Marland]

I am always available for side meetings to discuss this. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, is clutching at straws a little in his interpretation, but then, we each have our own interpretation. I do not see that, at the end of it all, we are going to move this back to breach of contract, to which the previous amendment—which is now withdrawn—related. I am grateful for the noble Lord’s words that we are all trying to move along the same path together. That is why we should continue to discuss this, which would be most welcome.

The noble Baroness, Lady Turner, reminded me of Piper Alpha. I used to be in the insurance industry and that was a seismic event for that industry. How well I remember the loss of life. It was a shocking moment for everybody who was involved in insurance. Luckily those who were worried ended up in jobs because, obviously, the oil industry was able to recover very quickly from that horrendous accident and its expertise was needed.

Both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, mentioned the list. It is all about definition of “a worker”. We can only remove “a worker” from the definition if that category of worker no longer exists. What we have sought to do in the first part, which I think everyone is very happy about, is to recognise that we have failed to add some workers in. We have put a provision in the Bill to add others in if a worker group does start to exist, and of course we will remove one if they do not exist. It is an ongoing thing, which is why we have provided for that definition.

I am not quite sure where we have got to. Lord Chairman, perhaps with your great wisdom you can guide us. I moved an amendment and I think that the noble Baroness was speaking to her amendment as well as to mine. I ask for guidance, Lord Chairman. I hope that one amendment will be supported and the other will not be pressed.

[Lord Geddes]

As is normal on these occasions, we take it strictly by the order of the Marshalled List. The question therefore is that Amendment 21 be agreed to.

Amendment 21 agreed.