Care of Churches and Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction (Amendment) Measure

Lord Elton Excerpts

Thursday 22nd January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, first, I commend the right reverend Prelate for the manner in which he introduced this Measure, which of course has my support as it has the support of the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and my noble friend Lord Marlesford. I declare an interest as the vice-president of the Lincolnshire Churches Trust. I want to refer briefly to a matter which I raised in your Lordships’ House when I introduced a debate in June of last year on the importance of the parish church. I talked about the terrible problem of bats. I am afraid that people sometimes express hilarity when one talks about bats. They go off about bats in belfries, and all the rest of it. Even in another place last Friday, when Mr Christopher Chope introduced a Bill to try to tackle this problem, there was some light-hearted banter which did not recognise the terrible danger to the fabric of our churches from bats. Some of the finest works of medieval art are in our churches: wall paintings, monuments et cetera. The corrosive effect of bat urine and bat droppings is in fact gradually destroying many of these wonderful artefacts. This point was highlighted in a powerful letter in the Times only last week signed by Professor Jean Wilson, who is the president of the Church Monuments Society, and a number of other eminent authorities, including the president of my own society, the Society of Antiquaries. It is a real, serious and continuing problem.

I very much hope that it is a problem that will be addressed in a future Measure, which will be presented as elegantly and concisely as the right reverend Prelate has presented this one. I hope that we can tackle this in the very near future because not only is it a real and continuing problem in the way that I have described but it is making it virtually impossible for some churches to be used for proper worship. One has had all manner of disturbing letters, such as that about the couple kneeling to receive the sacrament and receiving bat droppings. The priest administering the sacrament was similarly affected. I cannot stress enough what a problem this is and I would be grateful for a brief, and I hope sympathetic, response from the right reverend Prelate.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

I assured the right reverend Prelate that I would say only “Hear, hear”. In fact, I am going to pinch his “Hear, hear” and say it to my noble friend Lord Cormack because we have suffered with bats, too, and it really is a serious problem. I am not sure whether it is the subject of this Measure or the proper place to raise it but I am very glad that it has been raised.

[The Lord Bishop of Derby]

I thank noble Lords for their interest and engagement and for their churchwardenship and leadership.

As regards tombstones, authority will in general continue to be delegated to incumbents provided that relevant criteria are met. As noble Lords will know, because the external appearance of the churchyard is so important we have to look at the types of stone used.

On the repairs to walls and so on, quite a lot of those issues will be deregulated but we have to remember that, if they are to change the appearance of the building or its presentation, that is a matter for wider concern and consultation.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and the Ecclesiastical Committee for processing this so well and agreeing, so powerfully, to support it. I am grateful for that.

As regards the bats, at the moment they are—as the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, will know—largely outside the scope of this Measure and subject to the Wildlife and Countryside Act. However, I share his concern from my own experience, and I am glad that he used the word “future”. Beyond this Measure we have to look seriously at the enormous damage being done to our buildings and put preservation and health at the forefront. We have some way to go, but I totally endorse and support what the noble Lord said. I invite the House to approve the Measure.