House of Lords: Reform

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 11th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, I wish to speak in the gap, which is somewhat unexpected in this debate. We are debating the function and not the membership of this House, although they are closely related. The essential function of an appointed House in a democracy is to protect the electorate from any structural or systemic failure in the elected Chamber which leaves them exposed to overmighty Government or the leeching away of their freedoms. I wonder how many of the electorate know that if it had not been for this House, any one of them could, on any day, have been told, without warning, that their name was on a piece of paper signed by the Home Secretary and that they were to be put in detention for three months without appeal and without access to a court, a judge or a jury. We stopped that on the day and night of 10 to 11 March 2005. That is what the House is for and that is what it did.

The other House had lost control of the Government, although they had a huge majority, because the Government control candidature and standing again, and Members’ careers depend entirely on pleasing the party. Therefore, when Members’ salaries increase inexorably, that is a sharpened power which the Whips carry. The need to be elected, the need to be approved and the need to be re-elected are the three elements that caused that trouble and they are precisely the three elements which the current Government are now foolishly proposing to introduce in place of this independent, unelected, unpaid House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I can assure the noble Lord that the pre-legislative process is extremely important. We cannot get a satisfactory resolution of this issue unless all parties to the discussion feel that they have a proper opportunity for debate and for giving their input. At the moment, a relatively small group of people is setting about the task with a purpose. The all-party committee is representative of the senior figures of this House and of the House of Commons. Its draft Bill is the material with which Members of this House will be able to debate and the whole process of pre-legislative scrutiny is vital if we are to get a proper solution to something for which I think that many Lords have indicated their support—that is, the reform of the House of Lords and the bringing about of an elected Chamber.

[Lord Elton]

Can the noble Lord be a bit more specific about what form the pre-legislative scrutiny will take because most of us have no idea?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I would imagine that it will take the form of a Joint Committee of both Houses, but I am not in a position to suggest that form. The draft Bill will be debated by this House. It will be up to this House to determine that.