United Nations Secretary-General: Selection

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Thursday 22nd January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, with regard to United Nations Security Council reform, I was in New York just before the new year and met various actors at the United Nations. I made it clear that we support administrative and efficiency reforms but also reforms of the Security Council itself and its membership, and that in a changing world since the United Nations was founded 70 years ago, it is right that we should now look at membership for countries such as Brazil, Germany, India, Japan and, indeed, at African representation —although it would be for the African group to decide how it approached that. It is important that the United Nations Security Council as a whole works unanimously to resolve some of the most difficult and complex disagreements around the world.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, I am disappointed with the Minister’s answer. No British employer operating an equal opportunities policy would be allowed to get away with the shambolic approach that the United Nations takes to these leading posts. Surely, what we need is something that is not a travesty of an appointments system but that actually ensures that the person who gets the job is the best and most suitable person to do it.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord is right to say that the procedure must enable the best person to be appointed. At the FCO, we approach appointments on the basis that women should always on a shortlist. That is the principle at the FCO. I hope that others hear that.

United Nations: Secretary-General

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

I shall not comment on potential candidates, some of whom have been named in the public domain, while others may wish to put themselves forward. I am clear that, despite the mandate of the Secretary-General, it is apparent that those with clear leadership and an ability to add their personal perspective to the issues at the UN General Assembly are those who seem to achieve real results.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

I wonder whether the Minister is aware of what happened when Kurt Waldheim became Secretary-General of the United Nations. Is she aware that at that time there were six candidates on the shortlist, five of whom were good? The Russians vetoed the five good ones and that is why Waldheim got the job. Can we be sure that that sort of shenanigans do not happen again?

[Baroness Warsi]

Of course, that Secretary-General was appointed in 1972 when I was one year old but I will try to recall that period. The noble Lord makes an important point. The P5 has a veto in relation to these matters. Even when we end up with nine approved votes at the UN Security Council, the P5 can still come along and cut across it. That is why it is important that we achieve some consensus before we get to that point.

UN Arms Trade Treaty

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

We think that we may have to implement some secondary legislation. Once the treaty has been signed, it will be laid before both Houses, I think for 21 sitting days. We hope and anticipate that we will be able to ratify before the end of the year. We think that there may be some amendments to secondary legislation, but that will take place before the end of the year.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, I have had discussions with various people who were closely involved with this. It is, after all, a really good news story. However, I have been advised that the signing ceremony will be particularly important. If the United Kingdom is not present, that could send a signal that our commitment is not as high as it should be. I urge the Government to consider that we should be represented in New York on 3 June at the most senior level possible to show how committed we are to this treaty.

[Baroness Warsi]

Exactly those kinds of discussions are happening to make sure that we send out that very strong signal. Your Lordships will also be aware that we can make an intent declaration when we sign. We will make sure that that is very robust and clear. Much work has gone into this and we have led on much of it. I absolutely assure the noble Lord and this House that we will continue to show our support.

EU: UK Balance of Trade

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Wednesday 14th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Baroness is on a leave of absence, and I think everybody in this House would agree that she does an extremely valuable job. It is true that the relationship extends far beyond just the trade relationship. I am sure my noble friend would agree, as would many noble Lords, that it is a relationship on which we can exert influence, and one that I and many in this House believe needs rebalancing.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that although it is very advantageous for us to be a member of the European Union, it is a positive advantage that we are not a member of the euro. Is it not time the Government acknowledged that Gordon Brown deserves a lot of credit for having kept us out of the euro? Credit where credit is due.

Eurozone

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Wednesday 16th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, given that we refused to join the euro because we believed it was an ill conceived project—

[Lord Dubs]

Gordon Brown!

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

We, the British, refused to join the euro because it was an ill conceived project. Will my noble friend give an absolute assurance that not a cent of British taxpayers’ money will be spent on sorting out this shambles?

Death Penalty

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Like the noble Baroness, I certainly declare an interest in the Commonwealth. She is quite right. The figures that I have show that 36 of the Commonwealth countries retain the death penalty in statute, but of those, 15 are in effect abolitionists and have not used it in practice. Eleven countries have carried through executions since 2000, and that is not satisfactory. It is certainly one of the values of the Commonwealth system that we are in a position to press very hard on those countries to see whether they will move towards abolition more quickly. My right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary called for the abolition of the death penalty when he addressed the Commonwealth People’s Forum in Perth last October. So the pressure is on, and we will certainly continue. However, I emphasise that the very existence of the Commonwealth enables us to increase that pressure and focus it effectively.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that in arguing against the death penalty, in line with our Government’s policy, the difficulty is that the countries concerned can then say, “Yes—what about the United States?”. What representations do we make to the United States? It represents the weakest point in the argument against the death penalty.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I would not myself put it in the way that the noble Lord has. The United States is one of our priority countries, and we regularly make our views known to the US authorities bilaterally through the European Union and in any other way that we can. We are particularly concerned about individual cases of British nationals facing the death penalty in the USA. It is undeniably a problem, but I do not think that it weakens the argumentation that can be put forward in other countries—where, here and there, there are some definite signs of progress. I remind the noble Lord that, for instance, in 2009 Barbados announced its intention to abolish the death penalty. There is a UN General Assembly resolution coming up on this whole area which we are strongly supporting.

UNESCO

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I have absolutely no idea. The world is not like that. It is not a question of representations. Obviously there are discussions in the corridors at multinational meetings on who is going to subscribe to what. That is perfectly natural, but we make our own decisions in the end.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, is not the real issue that, given that no sensible negotiations are taking place, the Palestinians have very few options left and that their bid to become members of the United Nations, and initially of UNESCO, is the only way forward for them? If we keep talking about negotiations when they are not happening, are we not simply saying, “Let us leave it as it is”?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am not sure that the noble Lord has got that right at all. It is perfectly true that Mr Netanyahu is not, or does not appear to be, a great proponent of negotiations at the present time, but the quartet is proposing some views. We think that there are pressures that can carry negotiation forward and we are not at all convinced that the Palestine statehood idea, if it went to the Security Council and produced the veto and the freezing up of negotiations all round, would be much of an improvement on the situation. I agree with him that it is not good, but it would certainly be very much worse in our view if we followed this course.

East Jerusalem

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Thursday 16th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Very many people would agree with the noble Lord’s sentiments. Of course, this area has been occupied since 1967 when—to get history right—Israel was attacked, broke through the Mandelbaum Gate and occupied east Jerusalem and many other areas as well. Ever since then, the handling of the occupation by the Israeli authorities has given rise to criticism. It is the clear view of Her Majesty's Government that the more heavy-handed and inappropriate the operations in the administration of east Jerusalem, with the kind of things that I described, the more we postpone the goal that we all want to achieve of proper peace negotiations to bring the two-state solution that will bring peace and harmony to the area.

[Lord Dubs]

I welcome what the Minister said about the Government's policy. Do not all the criticisms that he made, which I believe are valid, add up to the fact that it will be extremely difficult for east Jerusalem to become the capital of a Palestinian state?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Everyone recognises the whole Jerusalem issue, and the east Jerusalem issue is an enormously complex part of any future negotiations. We are talking about the goal of both Palestine and Israel recognising east Jerusalem as a joint capital. It is the capital of both countries and of many religions throughout the world. A degree of understanding is needed and is still missing between the Israeli authorities—although not among many highly enlightened and intelligent members of the Israeli community—the Palestinian people and the Palestinian Government, who are led in a very positive way at the moment, so that the very difficult concept of Jerusalem as the capital of both countries can be worked out and they can live together.

Israel and Palestine

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Monday 9th May 2011 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Dubs]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to encourage a settlement between Israel and Palestine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said in Cairo on 2 May, we renew our calls for both sides to commit to peace talks, leading to a Palestinian state that exists in peace and security alongside Israel. We want to see a resumption of negotiations based on clear parameters supported by the international community: 1967 borders with equivalent land swaps, appropriate security arrangements, Jerusalem as the capital of both states and a just solution for refugees.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the widespread support that there has been for the Prime Minister’s recent positive approach to the agreement between Fatah and Hamas. What is the Government’s view on the Israeli Government’s threat to withhold $105 million-worth of tax and customs revenues from the Palestinian Authority in case it should proceed with this agreement with Hamas?

BBC World Service

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

On the last point, I think that that is absolutely right. There ought to be—although this is of course a management decision for both the World Service and the BBC—very adequate provision, as I hope personally that there will be, for the encouragement, redirection and reabsorbing of the redundant people into the media world in various forms. Redundancies are always a personally sad business, although sometimes they open new opportunities as well. The noble Baroness is quite right about that.

As for independence, I emphasise the point that has been put to me many times in recent weeks. The move of the BBC World Service over to the BBC, with the ending of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office being the paymaster of the BBC World Service, is very positive. It emphasises and re-emphasises the independence of a body that has always been regarded as being of great value by most people. However, one did hear, in the past, the occasional query as to how it was so independent if it was paid for by the Foreign Office. That will not be the case in three years’ time, so on that score I ask for all who follow these matters closely and value the BBC World Service to feel a glimmer of optimism, despite the pessimism that we have heard in every intervention so far.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords—

[Lord Howe of Aberavon]

My Lords—

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we have plenty of time. Let us hear from the Labour Benches and then from my noble and learned friend.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, in many parts of the world, there is a serious struggle going on for the hearts and minds of people in order to persuade them to see our democratic values and the freedom that we cherish? Is he so certain that the technological changes that make him suggest that the radio is no longer important have spread into those countries where this battle for hearts and minds is going on most seriously? Turkey is only one of the many examples. Is there not a danger that the technological argument that some of the more affluent people in these countries can get television and the internet ignores the fact that there are many people who cannot and who rely on the radio? Might that not mean that we are losing the battle for their hearts and minds?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

These are sensible considerations to analyse in seeing how our communications systems on the planet should change. I can only say to the noble Lord, who follows these things closely, that when I was on a visit to China the other day I was told that 330 million people in that country were now online and were looking at a bombardment of media services, not just from the BBC but from a dozen other sources throughout the planet, all of which they were absorbing before turning to the older-fashioned pattern of listening to the radio. I do not deny for a moment that the noble Lord may be right and that there may be areas where the end of these language services will be a real loss. That may be so, but I suspect that there are many more areas where the loss will not be so great because of the alternatives that are developing. Television services that did not exist 10 or 20 years ago are now filling the media in these areas, particularly those that we are concerned with, with a huge new supply of information.

Of course we want to make sure that our message gets through as clearly as it possibly can and we have to use all the methods that we can. However, it would not be a good message to the world if, at the same time as we were putting out our principles by communication, the word was coming over that this country was unable to tackle its debts, that it was losing its international credit status and that its economic recovery was being delayed by the near-bankruptcy, as some experts have said, into which our public finances unfortunately fell. That is where we start from and why we have to take these tough decisions.