Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Friday 18th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, it is, of course, unsatisfactory that we are debating these regulations some time after they have come into effect. The Government may say that there is no alternative. We are sometimes giving venues too little notice to take advantage of any relaxation. My key point is lack of clarity. If we want public support for what we are doing—and it will not work without it—then the public have to understand what is happening and why. I talk to people and they do not know. Sometimes they ask my advice and I am not an expert on this at all. Unless we are clear, the public will not respond, and we cannot expect them to. That is a big gap in what the Government are doing.

Next, we are being unfair to the police. Things change very quickly, and the police are being asked to operate in the most difficult circumstances, when there is a lack of knowledge and sympathy for what they are trying to do. We are putting a totally unreasonable burden on the police and we should not be asking them to do it. If we had a bit more clarity, the police might be able to respond better. It is hard to know how people should behave. I have been told of occasions when people were sitting on trains without wearing masks, but the train staff said nothing. It is not only the police; other officials are being put in a very difficult position. They do not want to have a bust-up or a row, so I urge that we be much clearer.

Lastly, it is not at all clear when the rule of 30 applies and when the rule of six. I would welcome some clarity from the Minister on that.