House of Lords Reform

Lord Desai Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Desai (CB)]

My Lords, as the 50th speaker in this debate, I have to say something different from everybody else—I will try.

There are two problems here. First, people think it is an anomalous thing that we are an appointed Chamber. I do not think it is anomalous at all because the entire British constitution is an anomaly. There is no reason why we should not be what we are. Other countries have followed our constitution and arrangement of Parliament but, obviously, they have not had an appointed Chamber. We have one because that is what we have always had. I do not see that there is necessarily any point in changing that.

The second problem is that whenever the Labour Party comes into power, it realises that it does not have enough people in the House of Lords. That is because it does not have enough hereditary Peers. That is the way it is. I have one simple way to solve the problem: on election, create 100 hereditary Peers. Problem solved. Then it will have the numbers here and it will get its things passed. I am sure there are eager people on the Labour Benches and in the Labour membership who would, much as they hate the hereditary system, love to be here. Really, the problem is a ruling Government not having the numbers and hereditary powers to be able to pass their legislation. We have discussed things around this, but those are the two problems.

Look at the history, as some people have done, of every time the Labour Party has come to power. I especially remember what Harold Wilson tried to do. He tried to find some way of, as it were, deactivating the hereditary element in the House of Lords. He said, “Let’s make a distinction between the right to come and discuss matters and the right to vote”. As a noble Lord said, it was sabotaged by Michael Foot and Enoch Powell. Michael Foot thought he wanted to abolish the House of Lords and Enoch Powell said, “Over my dead body”. Basically, that union frustrated that reform.

Then, of course, in the period between 1974 and 1979, the majority of the Labour Party was much too small to do any such thing. When we came back to power under new Labour, we made another attempt; I say “we” because, at that time, I was in the Labour Party. Obviously, that attempt was halted half way through, and 99 or 100 hereditary Peers were left behind.

I always thought that we would solve the problem of numbers—along with reforming the House of Lords in terms of hereditary peerages—but, somehow, a decision has been made that we cannot do that. It is a pity because one thing I thought we would do is an analysis of all the existing Members—who has been working, coming regularly and making contributions. It is simple: those who are inactive should be thrown out, not on the grounds of age but on the grounds that they were appointed here but did not do the work. The noble Lord, Lord Birt, gave some numbers. We could reduce the total number by quite a bit if we used rules like that, but a decision has been made not to do that.

Instead, a decision has been made to get rid of the hereditary Peers. It is class envy, and I do not like that. There is no other reason to get rid of hereditary Peers except that some people think they have no right to sit here. Once we abolish by-elections, they will be de facto life Peers anyway, so what is the problem? As I said before, if they work, let them be here; if they do not work, throw them out along with the other life Peers.