Lord Deben
Main Page: Lord Deben (Conservative - Life peer)
Lord Deben (Con)
My Lords, I, too, congratulate the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, on initiating this debate. I apologise to the Minister as what I have to say will be fairly tough and is not aimed at her. This issue is personal for me because when we last debated it I was given undertakings by the Government, as a result of which I urged the House not to pass the amendment. The Government told me that if the amendment was not passed they would take measures, do the research and then introduce the changes. I spoke up for the Government on that occasion. The Government lost the debate and have been told by Parliament that they must, by order, introduce this measure by means of secondary legislation. However, the Government are refusing to do that, having promised me that even if we did not pass the measure they would take action.
I have to say that every part of this debate has been a shame on our democratic system. The Government have to accept that Parliament has spoken. My noble friend Lord Popat proved that because he wants the legislation to be reversed. He knows that the only way in which he can win on his point of view, which I disagree with very deeply, is by having the legislation reversed. The Government cannot argue that because of a partial decision by a tribunal they are excluded from the need to legislate. They have to legislate—that is what the law says. That leads me to believe that the only reason the Government have not legislated is a pretty unacceptable one. It is interesting that people are more enthusiastic about dealing with this when in opposition than was noticeable when they were in government. Both parties must accept that they failed to do in government what in opposition both parties have recognised that they ought to do. Therefore, it seems to me that powerful forces have been employed to inhibit Governments of both parties from taking measures which any ordinary, sensible person should insist they take.
If the Government rely on the tribunal decision, there can be no reason why they should not confirm it by taking the action on which Parliament has insisted. If this tribunal decision is in their minds good enough, why cannot they do what Parliament said? There is nothing wrong in reinforcing that, particularly as its reinforcement would mean that the Government would not be in breach of the United Nations, which they clearly are. However the Minister explains it, there is no doubt that we are not in conformity with that body. Indeed, the Government have admitted that—in replying to the United Nations they said that they were in the course of arranging to be in conformity. Well, they have been in the course of doing so for some time and it still has not resulted in the answers which this House wants.
I say to my noble friend Lord Popat that this House changed the law and it was accepted by the other House. It is no good saying that somehow this issue is different because we agreed it. The fact is that in the end the House of Commons saw that we were right. That is why we are here. If that is not why we are here, why the blazes do we turn up and have these arguments anyway? My noble friend has got to accept that this is what Parliament has decided.
I am happy to see that Mrs May is now leader of the Conservative Party—thank God. In her first statement, she reminded the Conservative Party that her first principle was to ensure that all people had a fair do in life. Can one possibly say that and yet exclude from the fair do in life those who happen to be Dalits? This is the first chance that a new Government have got to stand up and tell this House that they intend to obey the law. The only alternative is to tell this House that they intend to disobey the law. I do not believe that is a proper position for any Government.