Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Lord Crisp Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 23rd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Crisp (CB)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton, and good to hear that the Swan at Olney is still thriving, despite the tobacco ban.

It is very good to see this Bill and to see that it is supported so strongly in the Commons, by all sides. One thing that strikes me strongly about this debate is how public opinion has changed, and the noble Lord just gave a very good example of that. Some of that change has happened in response to some of the actions taken—for example, we have seen change coming from the banning of cigarette smoking in public places—but it seems to have been continuing since. We have had a number of strong quotations from the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and others about how public opinion will support radical action in this area—much more radical than perhaps we would expect.

With this in mind, I want to mention two areas which I would be particularly interested in seeing taken forward. The first is the “polluter pays” levy, first mentioned in this debate by the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, and later by the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester, and no doubt by others as well. This is an important way of making progress here. It is worth remembering that the tobacco companies make their profits at the expense of others. Duty raises about £7 billion a year on UK sales, but the costs to the public sector for dealing with the consequences of smoking are estimated to be about £16.5 billion a year, and lost productivity adds a further £20 billion or so.

Those figures are suspiciously round, but, nevertheless, they show that, even more than the tax that comes in, there is a very large cost to clearing up the mess left behind by tobacco and the trail, if you like, of pain and misery caused by the tobacco industry. It is an expensive habit for society, as well as for individuals. I would certainly want to see amendments being moved in that area and I would support them.

In passing, it is important that those of us in favour do not dismiss the very practical arguments that have been made by Peers from different sides of the House. There are some real practical issues here that need to be dealt with, such as those concerning age, which have been talked about—how we check age and so on—or about the black market. Happily, we will have time in Committee to debate those. I hope we will also debate other options, including what would happen by 2040, which is, I think, the WHO date for the prohibition of tobacco products. We should be looking at the consequences and the implications of that as well.

The second area I want to raise is the whole issue around vaping. It seems that while to some extent the management of smoking tobacco is being controlled and we are moving forward, the whole area of vaping is out of control—and not just vaping but the adding of nicotine to sweets and other ways of attracting children. This seems too far out of control, and I am not sure that the Bill goes far enough on how that needs to be handled. I would like to see that coming back in Committee, and I would be interested in discussing it.

I recognise the point made by the Minister and others that vapes can help people give up smoking, and that most public health specialists assess them as significantly safer than smoking. However, as the Chief Medical Officer has said, it is a very low bar for vapes to be safer than smoking. His advice, which I think one has to follow, is:

“If you smoke, vaping is much safer; if you don’t smoke, don’t vape”.


It is utterly unacceptable to market vapes to children.

To finish on a slightly lighter note, it has been interesting to hear in this debate how cunning the tobacco companies are. They have shown themselves to be extremely agile—cunning is perhaps a better word —at getting around regulations and provisions, and designing new products to get customers of all ages addicted. What would it be like if this great wealth of enterprise and determination were put to the development of something that enhanced, rather than damaged, society? It is such a waste of all that talent and energy to use it to damage people’s lives.