Refugees (Family Reunion) Bill [HL]

Lord Cormack Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 15th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I thought it rather sad that nobody from this side of the House was taking part. I will briefly give my support to the general principles of the Bill. I am so glad that the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, mentioned Jonathan Swift’s A Modest Proposal. If your Lordships have not read it and do not read anything else during the Christmas Recess, look it up. It will not take you long. It is the most wonderful, erudite, witty, scintillating indictment of nonsense that you will ever read.

I want to contribute to this debate for three reasons. I remember that in 1945, we had in our own small home a couple of Polish children roughly of my age—six or thereabouts—who came from a camp in Lincolnshire not very far from where they lived in Grimsby to spend the day on two or three separate occasions. My father was on the point of making an application to see whether we could adopt at least one of them when they were mercifully reunited with their family. I can still remember the joy.

When I came into the other place in 1970, I had not been there long when I was very proud to support Edward Heath’s welcoming of the Ugandan Asians. Like the Jews before the last war and those such as the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, who came with the Kindertransport, that influx enriched our society. We even have at least one of them—my noble friend Lord Popat—among our number in your Lordships’ House. I remember, as chairman of the campaign for the release of Soviet Jewry, helping to welcome in Vienna those who got their visas to get out of the Soviet Union and the repressive conditions there, and to come to the West.

We are moving towards Brexit. I acknowledge it as much as I regret it, but the one thing we must not be moved towards is an isolationist position in the continent of Europe. We must remain a leading nation. We are a leading nation with a proud history of welcoming those fleeing persecution. Of course we must be careful in how we vet people in this age of terrorism and so on. But earlier this year when I was on the Home Affairs Sub-Committee of the European Union Committee—before I was sacked for voting as I did on the Article 50 Bill—a group of children came before us and gave testimony in a private session. It was deeply moving.

This country, with its proud record going back centuries—welcoming the Huguenots in the 17th century and so on—has a role that it must not abandon. The family unit is the building block of any society. If we can help by having some family units from those countries riven by famine, civil war and strife, we will be living up to our proud history. If this Bill helps us to do so, it deserves our full and unreserved support.

Online Hate Speech

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 30th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am delighted to express on behalf of this House, as I am sure noble Lords agree, that not only do Muslims abhor violence—it is part of the teaching of the Koran—but they helped us in wars that we have fought. I have first-hand experience of how they helped in the aftermath of some awful events in this country, not only the terrorist attack in Manchester, when Muslim taxi drivers were on hand giving their service for free, but after the floods in Manchester when the Muslim community helped to provide food and shelter to people who were in need. It brought communities together, and we should remember that.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, could we gently suggest to the President of our greatest ally that if he would make the White House a tweet and Twitter-free zone, he would make an immeasurable contribution to the peace of the world?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I recall the words of the former Prime Minister about “too many tweets”. I shall not repeat what he said but, yes, we must all be careful about what we tweet and the effect that it can have on the wider community. We should tweet with care.

Immigration: International Students

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 10th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am afraid that I cannot say that. But my parents were immigrants to this country. They went to university in another country but certainly made this country their home. I agree that the bond that the student has with the country where they study often means that they stay here to work and contribute hugely to the economy of this country. In fact, the MAC is conducting a study on the effect of student migration and will report soon.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Cannot my noble friend accept that there is an overwhelming view in this House that it would be sensible and entirely prudent to treat students separately, particularly at this juncture in our national affairs?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am neither deaf nor blind to the views of noble Lords on student migration.

Brexit: UK-EU Movement of People (EUC Report)

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 17th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I will come back to my noble friend with accurate figures, but I shall finish my point on the International Passenger Survey because there are other methods of measurement. My noble friends Lord Forsyth and Lord Kirkhope and the noble Lords, Lord Oates and Lord Kennedy, all talked about the accuracy of the migration statistics. We think it is the best method, but exit checks were mentioned. The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, made a very impassioned plea for exit checks. The Government reintroduced exit checks in 2015. They are based on advanced passenger records and passport swipes as people go through airports. Last August we published a report on the methodology issues which they raised. I commend the report to the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, and to any other noble Lords who have not yet read it and are interested in it. In due course, the exit checks will add to the statistical picture on migration, so between the two methods we will get a better picture of where we are on migration.

[Lord Cormack]

I do not want to put my noble friend, for whom I have very real regard, on the spot tonight, but will she please try to ensure that a document is produced for when we come back in September that gives the real figures and details, because it is just not acceptable for any Member of your Lordships’ House to be told that the cost is disproportionate? That is just not on.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think I have already offered to meet the noble Lord, Lord Hain. I have the figures for the International Passenger Survey, which show that 800,000 people were interviewed per year.

My noble friend Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate asked me why British citizens are included in net migration statistics. The statistics cover all those who come to the UK for more than 12 months and all those who leave the UK for more than 12 months. This enables those with responsibility for the provision of services to know the likely demand for those services, and therefore it is right that the ONS includes those statistics.

The committee is right to highlight the need to consider the impact of leaving the EU on our economy and the labour market. Officials across government and the ONS continue to draw together evidence and are undertaking a wide range of data analysis covering the full range of impacts of EU migration. We also intend to commission advice from the Migration Advisory Committee. There have been numerous studies looking into the impact of increased migration in the labour market on wages. The Migration Advisory Committee, to which the noble Lord, Lord Green of Deddington, referred, summarised that:

“Studies estimating the impact of migrants on UK wages have generally found little or no impact on average wages. However, in some studies migrants were found to increase wages at the top of the UK wage distribution and to lower wages at the bottom”.


More recent evidence from the Bank of England also suggests that,

“while immigration appears to have a negative impact on occupational pay, the overall average effect is relatively small”.

One of the co-authors of the research has recently emphasised the small nature of impacts, with,

“the biggest impact of immigration on wages”,

seen,

“within the semi/unskilled services occupational group”.

The Bank’s research also suggests there was no additional impact on aggregate UK wages as a result of migrants arriving specifically from EU countries. However, it is worth noting that average wage effects and the impact on individuals can be, and can seem, very different. Even small adverse effects on average wages can be significant for the individuals and families concerned.

We are looking at the need for all types of workers, and we would not wish to rule out any options at this stage. It is right that we consider low-skilled migration as part of the wider picture. It is likely that migrants working in lower-skilled occupations may make lower income tax and national insurance contributions to the UK Exchequer, as they may be receiving lower salaries than more highly-skilled migrants. So clearly this is one issue of many that we will need to consider, as well as understanding how impacts vary across a range of factors and indicators including businesses, sectors, and regions.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, talked about the implementation period. The February White Paper was clear that we will avoid a cliff edge for business and migrants and ensure a smooth transition. That is our clear aim, but it is far too early to say exactly what that might look like. The noble Lord asked about the issue of high-skilled versus low-skilled. Future decisions will be based on advice and evidence, as he says, and no final decisions have yet been taken.

The noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen, asked about the position of children. I share her concern for the welfare of children. I know she will shortly be meeting my noble friend Lady Anelay, as she said. The paper on safeguarding citizens’ rights that was published on 26 June made clear that the fair and serious offer that we have made also covers dependants, including children.

The noble Lord, Lord Trees, talked about the shortage of vets following the UK exit. We have made it clear that both the best and brightest will continue to be welcome to come to the UK, and future policy will be based on the future consideration of the evidence. I am sure the veterinary profession will want to contribute to that evidence picture. The noble Lord gave a number of significant statistics, and they will certainly form part of the consideration. The noble Lord also suggested that vets should be on the shortage occupation list. That list is produced by the independent Migration Advisory Committee, and the Government do not act independently of the MAC in this regard.

The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, talked about horticulture and construction facing a labour shortage. As long as the UK remains in the EU, EU citizens can come to the UK to work. Labour market statistics show that there are 171,000 more EU citizens in the UK labour market than a year ago. The noble Lord also asked me whether the Government would consider that construction was a key industry, and when HMG would reply to the Farmer and Morel reports. We absolutely recognise the importance of construction, which is why the Government have invested in skills and apprenticeships. We also need to encourage house builders to move to modern methods of construction. I will write to the noble Lord about the reports that he referred to.

The noble Lord, Lord Trees, asked what steps the Government were taking to make it clear to EU nationals that they are welcome in the UK. We have made it clear that so long as the UK remains a part of the EU, EU citizens have full rights to come here and remain welcome. We have made this point clearly and repeatedly.

The noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, make important points about the common travel area between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, particularly for those who live in the border areas of Northern Ireland and southern Ireland. Maintaining that common travel area with the Republic of Ireland and protecting the high level of operational co-operation that underpins it will be an important priority for the UK in the talks ahead. There has been a common travel area between the UK and the Republic of Ireland for many years—in fact, since before the two countries were members of the EU—and that reflects the historical, social, political and economic ties between its members. We will work to deliver as soon as we can a practical solution that allows the maintenance of the CTA within the Republic while protecting the integrity of the UK’s immigration system. I reassure the noble and right reverend Lord that this consideration is not secondary but incredibly important in maintaining that frictionless border.

The noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, asked whether the UK was being flexible in negotiations. Of course the UK adopts a constructive approach to negotiation. We want to secure an agreement that works for both the UK and the EU. However, I do not propose to lay out the UK’s negotiating strategy this evening, as the noble Earl will probably understand.

I am running out of time, but I would like to make this last point. The noble Lords, Lord Judd and Lord Bilimoria, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, made the point that we are not a popular destination for international students. We are the second most popular destination for international students, behind only the USA. There are over 400,000 international students in the UK, and in answer to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Oates, about them being welcome, there is no limit on the number of students coming here and we do not intend to impose one. Visa applications sponsored by universities are 17% higher than they were in 2010, while visa applications to Russell Group universities are 48% higher than in 2010. Around 99% of student entry clearance visas are decided within 15 days, and the number of tier 4 students from China has risen year on year.

I have run out of time. I think this has been an incredibly valuable debate. As I have said, we are in listening mode and we have not made up our minds on many of the issues covered. I am grateful to have heard noble Lords’ views, and I hope I have been able to provide some reassurance about the Government’s approach on this issue.

Terrorist Attacks

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 22nd June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I say to the noble Baroness that the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary’s Statement on Monday was met with great praise, certainly from the Muslim community in Greater Manchester, because it expressed the same horror with regard to what went on on Monday as to what had gone on in previous terrorist events. I think that might be what the noble Baroness was pointing to.

I cannot go through the criteria for Channel, but broadly speaking it is a voluntary mechanism that is in place for people who are at risk of radicalisation. It does not target people who are at risk of radicalisation; it tries to protect them. That is the most important aspect of the Prevent programme. There have been 1,000 Channel referrals over the last few years, 25% of which, by the way, related to the far right. I am confident that Prevent is working. We have disrupted people from going abroad to fight foreign fighters.

On the noble Baroness’s point about language, I have already said this to my noble friend but I will reiterate it: we have to be careful about the language that we use. I can speak most of all for Manchester because I was there in the aftermath of the attack. The coming together of communities is our strength. There are things that government can do, but communities are very powerful bodies. I stood in Albert Square while we had the vigil and I saw people from all races, creeds and colours. The Sikh community were giving out water to people, and there was a great sense of coming together. Afterwards I stood with Afzal Khan at the British Muslim Heritage Centre in Whalley Range. For me, that immediate response from communities and that coming together are among the most powerful things that have come out of the attacks in Manchester.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, should we not bear in mind that we are pandering to the terrorists the longer we delay the resumption of normal activities after a terrorist outrage? I condemn utterly what was done, but I believe that the suspension of ordinary activities was a little prolonged and gave them a victory.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

As my noble friend knows, terrorists do not like democracy. We certainly had to perform a balancing act in the wake of the terrorist attacks. We wanted to give respect to the dead, which was extremely important. The feeling in Manchester was visceral; these were little children who had been murdered. I thought that after the Manchester attack it was right to give a longer period of respect during the election period. However, we did not want democracy thwarted either, so after the third attack, which was so close to the general election, activity was resumed at a much quicker pace. I think we got the balance right, and I think the cross-party view was that we got the balance right.