Crime: Wildlife Crime

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Thursday 31st January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, first, I am aware that John Scanlon recognises the increasing involvement of organised crime in illegal wildlife trade. He has welcomed the UN Security Council’s call for an investigation into the alleged involvement of the Lord’s Resistance Army in the poaching of African elephants and the smuggling of ivory. Police and crime commissioners will hold their chief constables to account for the totality of their policing, which includes the chief constable working in collaboration with other police forces and agencies to address national issues that impact on their communities. As I have said, we believe that there is often a link between organised wildlife crime and other organised crimes, such as drugs and arms trafficking. We therefore expect the police to take wildlife crime seriously where it is a priority for their communities; co-operation with the NWCU will be key to this.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, while I commend the Government for their efforts in tackling wildlife crime in this country, is the Minister satisfied with the seriousness with which magistrates’ courts in certain parts of the country take this? Does he appreciate that there is a great deal of public anguish when people who are caught and proved guilty of killing golden eagles or hen harriers get off virtually scot free?

[Lord De Mauley]

The noble Lord makes a good point. Enforcement is important. The magistrates have taken account of that and issued a document a while ago that specifically addresses that.

Trees: British Ash Tree

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Monday 5th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Earl on securing this timely debate. The whole House is indebted to him. I also thank him for the erudite way in which he set the scene for the debate. When I was listening to his conclusions I found myself, not for the first time, in almost complete agreement with everything that he was saying.

In a sense, he was reminding us that we can do whatever we think we can as human beings, but if nature decides to set its mind on a particular course it is quite difficult for us to shift it from that course. However, there are things we can do and things we should have done in this case.

I empathised with the noble Earl when he said that he could not quite understand why there had been such a delay in tackling this scourge. I find it unexplainable. Even from last March, I cannot fully understand why there have been so many delays. The Government have procrastinated in this respect but I do not want to delay the House on that at this stage. There are a number of questions which I hope the Minister will be able to assist us with today to help us to try to understand what went wrong and how we can put it right.

The noble Earl and government Ministers have said that there is a ban on the import of ash trees and ash saplings into Britain. I ask in all innocence whether this is actually the case. In an article in the Guardian on Saturday a horticultural trade individual was reported as saying that there was not a complete ban, only that trees were not allowed to be imported into this country from areas where the disease exists. Can it be absolutely clarified that no ash trees are coming into this country and that the report in the Guardian is incorrect? We need to nail that, if it is not true, right at the beginning.

There is also a report today that the grower, Simon Ellis of Crowders in Lincolnshire, is threatening to sue the Government. He claims that even after the disease was discovered in his nurseries, he was not allowed to destroy the plants and that the disease spread even further in this period. Is that also the case?

Another point I would like to clarify is the position about the burning of ash. One way to mitigate the cost, if it is possible, is to burn ash. As noble Lords know, ash is a fine wood for burning and is in great demand. There may be problems with burning ash that has been affected, but what about the burning of ash that has not been affected? Will the market be allowed to carry on?

On a more strategic front, this episode and this disease has brought to our attention the inadequacies of the European Union rules on animal and plant health. This again is a point raised by the noble Earl. I hope the Government will enter into negotiations with the European Union to make it quite clear that member nations must be allowed to close their borders if they feel that animal or plant health is being affected.

I also associate myself with what the noble Earl said about the strain and the stress being put on members of the Forestry Commission, and Forest Research in particular. Forest Research has the reputation of being at the forefront of all research dealing with plant pathogens and tree health. It has suffered very badly from swingeing cuts, and this cannot have helped us in our efforts to try to contain not only this disease but a host of other diseases affecting a whole range of our trees in Britain.

Clearly this is a natural phenomenon but the Government can—and must—take some action to mitigate its full effect if that can actually be achieved.

Schmallenberg Virus

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

I agree with my noble friend. Generally speaking, midges are very widespread across the country and I think that the application of a spray would have minimal impact.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, in view of the emergence of a worrying number of animal and plant diseases, which may or may not be connected with the nuances of climate change, will the Minister give us an assurance that none of the drastic cuts being made by the Government in their own research facilities will hinder the evolution of vaccines to counter things such as bovine TB, the Schmallenberg virus and Ash dieback?

[Lord De Mauley]

If I may, I shall restrict my response to the Schmallenberg virus for these purposes. I assure noble Lords that the necessary funding has been made available particularly to carry out the testing which is so critical in this case.

Bovine Tuberculosis

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, the point about mice, rats and indeed deer is that there is no restriction on culling them.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, I agree entirely with the Minister, as indeed would most people in the country, when he says that this is the most pressing animal health issue facing the country. In the light of that, I welcome the announcement today because I think that it exposes how shambolic the Government’s proposals have been in trying to tackle this real problem. As scientists said last week, the policy was little more than a costly diversion and we will end up with more cases of TB in four or nine years’ time than we have at the moment. The four-year pilots have now, with the stroke of a pen today, become five-year pilots. I believe that we ought to follow the recommendations of the European Union representatives and, although it will not be easy, continue to seek political consensus so that we can move on to vaccination and increase the amount of money that we are spending on research in this field, especially in the form of cattle vaccination.

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, the area in which I disagree with the noble Lord is clearly that of pursuing the cull, which I have said we are planning to do. The area in which I agree with him is that of vaccination, which is another tool in the box that we must find, and I assure noble Lords that we are continuing to work on that.

Environment: Leafleting

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I cannot agree with the noble Earl. This is up to local communities to decide. They can determine the balance between propagandising events and social activities and their own interest in trying to prevent litter and, to some extent, being bothered by people handing out leaflets.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, has the Minister seen the increase of small posters advertising functions dotting our roadside, which many of us regard as litter, and has he had any consultations with the police as to the road safety aspects of these many small posters?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

No, I have not but fly-posting is a problem dealt with by the Localism Act that we passed last year. The noble Lord makes an interesting point, but election posters spring to mind as being the most obvious things that one sees on lamp posts.

Rio+20 Conference

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Tuesday 26th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

The noble Lord has a great deal of knowledge in this area and I am very sorry that his indisposition meant that he could not chair one of the key committees at the conference. I agree that some of the outcomes are not as strong as we might have hoped. However, we must view this agreement in context. More than 190 countries have signed up to a political declaration and it is on the foundation of that declaration that the detailed work will then go forward. This country went to Rio+20 with a number of proposals that were welcomed by that conference.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, in view of the fact that one of the greatest single sources of global emissions is deforestation, and yet timber is one of the few tangible assets of some poor countries, will the Minister tell the House what specific agreement we made at Rio to try to tackle this very important issue?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I agree with the noble Lord that this is important. We wanted to impress on the conference that GDP was a rather inadequate measure of the resources of a country, and that we want to develop indicators of natural and social capital to complement GDP and agreement to incorporate these into national accounts. All nations at Rio+20 recognise the importance of a broader measure of progress to complement GDP in order to inform decision-making. Forestry is a key element of natural capital, and the UN Statistical Commission will take this work forward.

Agriculture: Schmallenberg Virus

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, good collaborative networks operate in Europe with our European colleagues. We are working with them and the Commission to develop an investigatory research programme to answer questions as to the disease’s origin, transmission and future prognosis. We have strength in depth in vector research at Pirbright and virus characteristics at the Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratory Agency at Weybridge, which will play a key role in this.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, has the Minister received any assessment—

[Baroness Trumpington]

My Lords, sorry, am I competing with somebody else? Forgive my ignorance but I do not know how this virus gets around. Is it through biting the animals, laying eggs or what? Families are involved in the birth of lambs. Are they—particularly the young women of the families—at risk of catching this terrible bug?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

No, I can reassure my noble friend that the family of viruses from which this infection comes poses no direct threat to human health. As for how the infection occurs, it is midge-transmitted: the midge infects the sheep or cattle. We know now that that occurred in the summer or early autumn of last year. Indeed, we know that the last possible date on which it might have occurred was 13 November. We know that from the weather prediction and patterns that we have studied to find out more about how this infection arrived in the country.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, I know when to be gallant. In view of the Minister’s assurance that there does not appear to be any risk to human health, and in view of experiences over recent decades, will he ask the Food Standards Agency and the Health Protection Agency to monitor the disease particularly closely?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I can assure the noble Lord that we have already done that. We have had risk assessments by the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control and the UK Health Protection Agency, both concluding that there is a very low likelihood of any risk from this disease to human health.

Environment: Cockle Beds

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Thursday 10th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

We are indeed entirely supportive of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority, which plays a very important role in preventing the exploitation of workers. In this instance, the authority has not been particularly involved—there is no evidence of gangs working the fishery—but I am pleased to give the noble Lord the assurance he seeks.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is deep confusion in the north-west of England, in Cumbria and around Morecambe Bay, about the present situation? Although, rightly, most attention has been paid to the saving of human lives, the natural environment is very fragile. Can the Minister assure us that Defra is monitoring that situation to ensure that irreparable damage is not done to the cockle beds and to other related species?

Oak Processionary Moth

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Wednesday 27th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for all she has said. She is quite right in, first, underlining the public health issues and, secondly, underlining the fact that some oak woodland areas might have to be removed from public access, as has happened in other parts of the EU, although we hope that it will not happen here.

The reason we have moved from eradication to containment is based on scientific advice that eradication within the five boroughs in south-west London that the noble Baroness is aware of is not possible. We managed to eradicate the outbreaks in Leeds and Sheffield but we got on to those much earlier. We did not get on to this outbreak, which started in the summer of 2006, early enough and therefore it will be very difficult to get rid of it. However, we are very grateful for all the work being done by Forest Research, Fera and by Kew Gardens, which also has an interest as it is right in the middle of the area.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that this moth affects other trees as well as oak? In view of the fact that Defra has required the Forestry Commission and Forest Research to reduce their budgets by 25 per cent, with a similar reduction in their staff, is the noble Lord absolutely confident that we have the resources available to tackle this tree-related disease plus the many others that are coming in from overseas at this time?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the first point to make is that we do not know that this disease has come from overseas; we do not know where it has come from. Secondly, my advice is that it affects oaks, but I will write to the noble Lord if it affects other trees as well. Thirdly, there is no question of budgetary constraints affecting the fight against this particular menace. I have spoken to the Forestry Commission today and it was perfectly happy to assure me that they had all the resources it needed to fight the problems of the processionary moth. The simple problem is that there are an awful lot of them in a confined area and there are an awful lot of oaks around, and finding all the eggs, larvae and so on is very difficult indeed. Money is not in question.

Public Bodies Bill [HL]

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newton of Braintree]

My Lords, perhaps I may chip in as a mere layman, and a former MP for a constituency that looked as though it was rural, just to support the previous two speeches. In passing, I may say that I really would not want to accept the noble Baroness’s description of my Front-Bench colleagues as stubborn, obdurate and wanting to settle old scores in relation to the amendment. That might turn out to be true in relation to others, but I am not sure that I would regard it as such in relation to this amendment.

As I said, I was a Member of Parliament in an area that looked as though it was rural. It had a lot of farmers 36 years ago—I was elected in 1974. Even then, although the numbers would have been down, a lot of people worked on farms. By the time I left, very few people worked on farms, certainly in eastern England, where it is heavily arable and a lot of people do not have or want animals. What one had were vast, Rolls-Royce-type pieces of equipment that needed highly skilled, trained people, as my noble friend pointed out, to operate them. Frankly, in a part of the country such as that, with modern farming—it is probably different in some other parts of the country—this whole thing has an antique feel about it compared with the circumstances in which the boards were set up. So I have some sympathy with my noble friends.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, I intervene briefly in opposition to the three previous speakers and in support of my noble friend’s amendment. I, too, send my good wishes to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, who intended to initiate this debate.

We had a long and interesting debate on this issue on 1 December, and I was struck by how it divided the House in a way that I had not seen previously. I saw coming from the Benches opposite the perspective of the owners of farms and the employers of farm workers. I make no observation except to say that that is a statement of fact. I do not for one moment suggest that noble Members opposite were not considerate, not kind and not informed—they were and they are—but they see things from a different perspective than do farm employees.

The Agricultural Wages Board represents roughly 150,000 people. When I heard the argument that agricultural workers are quite well paid—we have heard it touched upon today—I was not so sure that any of the 150,000 people who were affected by it would agree with that statement. That makes my point about the difference in perspective when looking at these issues. I emphasise that this is not only about those 150,000 people; the Agricultural Wages Board lays down a benchmark for many other rural and agriculturally related activities, and as we move into the contracting business in agriculture, which is inevitable, it is even more important.

The argument used for the creation of the Agricultural Wages Board was that there was no method of collective negotiations to achieve what was considered to be a fair wage, and so the state had to intervene to determine what that fair wage was. I still believe—it came out in our previous debate—that, in the absence of collective bargaining, the relationship between one employer and two or three employees can be very difficult; it can be embarrassing for both sides in many cases. The Agricultural Wages Board assisted in that respect.

The Government have been very active. Mr Paice wrote to Mr David Hill, the chair of the Agricultural Wages Committee for Cumbria, Northumbria and Tyne and Wear on 22 July and made the point, on which we can all agree, that it is a key government priority to support British farming. He said that he wanted to ensure that the agricultural industry can adopt flexible and modern agricultural practices. I agree with that as well—I hope we all do. However, I worry that the price we might have to pay for this is a reduction in the wages of agricultural employees.

I accept the argument that the Agricultural Wages Board and the industry employ very skilled personnel. The noble Lord, Lord Newton, has made that very clear and was very perceptive. As a result, various grades are covered by the board, and only a small minority are at the very basic level. I understand that. Therefore I was even more concerned to read another letter from Mr Jim Paice, the Minister in the other place, to Mr David Hill, dated 8 September, in which he says:

“the six different grades of worker”,

under the Agricultural Wages Board,

“will not be retained”.

They are going to abolish the various grades of skill that are now covered and recognised under the board. It is on that that I base my submission that, in a relative sense, wages will fall back and that the rewards that are currently given for skill, which is vital to that modern agricultural industry, as the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, has said, to produce more food depends upon the use of machinery and the skill of the workforce to use that.

It is imperative that we recognise those skills. I happen to believe that the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board and Mr Jim Paice’s proposal to abolish the grading of skills will actually lead to a less efficient agricultural industry, which is not what I want and, I hope, not what the other side wants. I feel very strongly that this will be seen in the countryside as another attempt by this Government to make life more difficult for people who work in the countryside.