Deregulation Bill

Lord Cashman Excerpts

Thursday 5th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fowler (Con)]

My Lords, I strongly agree with what my noble friend Lord Grade said. I am entirely sympathetic to the idea of decriminalising the non-payment of the licence fee. I obviously understand the arguments on that. Indeed, I think I have put one or two of those arguments myself. However, as the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, said, we are at the start of the royal charter debate. The whole point of that debate, and of the royal charter, is that there should be some certainty as far as the BBC is concerned. That is the whole case that has always been put by Ministers in the royal charter argument.

To give an example, some of us—I might now say many of us—think that the BBC Trust is one of the worst ideas ever put forward by any Government. There are very few supporters of the BBC Trust. There were a few at the time but even then they were pretty limited and now there are practically none. However, what is the Government’s response to the question, “Can we change the BBC Trust?”? It is, “Not a bit of it. You must wait until the charter review. Then we will look at it and see what can be done as far as the BBC Trust is concerned”.

So I am a little puzzled why this very profound change being advocated by the other place—the decriminalisation of the failure to pay the licence fee—should go ahead in advance of the debate. We would go ahead although we knew nothing about the future of the BBC, the licence fee or the impact that it would have upon the finances of the BBC. That is all basic information that Parliament is entitled to have before making a change of this kind.

Yet we know that some of the most enthusiastic supporters of this change to the Bill are opposed to the licence fee in any event. This is just a mini sideshow as far as they are concerned. They oppose the BBC as a public broadcaster and advocate a subscription system; we know that. These are not penal reformers coming forward in the main but people having a go at the BBC. We know that: they want to change it. We should be realistic about this. For all those reasons, I do not see why this change and, frankly, those kinds of people, should be given precedence. We have said that as far as changes are concerned there is a royal charter process and royal charter period. We should stick to that. I support the noble Baroness’s amendment.

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, I did not intend to speak in this debate but, having listened to those who have, I am inspired to do so. I absolutely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, in his assessment. Like the noble Lord, Lord Grade, I have to declare an interest as a former employee of the BBC but, unlike him, I do not receive a pension—not even to cover my congestion charge. However, I see the clause as an attempt to restrain the BBC. It is a seatbelt wrapped over the BBC. It will stop it being able to do any long-term planning. That great public broadcaster will be inhibited from entering contracts of employment with its own staff, let alone the staff it needs to bring in if its long-term planning is to produce the very programmes that we demand and maintain the excellence of its news coverage—although I do not always agree with it.

I urge your Lordships to support the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe. It is sensible; it gives certainty. Any decisions about the future of the BBC should take place after long and considered discussion.