Equality Act 2010: Code of Practice Debate
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Lord Carlile of Berriew
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Equality Act 2010: Code of Practice
Lord Carlile of Berriew Excerpts(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
We have to respect the judgment of the Supreme Court. It has interpreted the Equality Act, and I know that my noble friend—and I think everyone on this side of the House—is proud of the Equality Act and what it has achieved. We are absolutely determined to ensure that the rights that are given in the Equality Act that apply to trans people are properly maintained. She is absolutely right on that. But it is important that we have—my noble friend Lady Smith said it on Monday—a tradition in our country to respect people. There is a British way of doing things. The idea that someone will be challenged simply because of the way they are dressed or the way they look is not acceptable. Most of my trans friends happen to be trans men. The idea that a trans man will be challenged for going into the women’s toilet is another issue. We should be promoting common sense, dignity and respect in relation to this decision.
Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)
On the subject of proportionality so eloquently spoken of by the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, does the Minister agree that there have been only four reports of alleged criminal behaviour by trans people in lavatories since 2022? Does he not think that the obsession with lavatories does us no credit whatever and that we should leave it to those who are the proprietors of lavatories to reach common-sense conclusions about their premises?
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I hear what the noble Lord says. What we do have is a decision of the Supreme Court and a decision of the independent Equality and Human Rights Commission about how that guidance should be complied with. I do not understand the fixation on toilets either. The point was raised about safety; we were talking about women’s refuges and the need for single-sex spaces. But when I am in Spain, no woman or man worries about where they go to the toilet—we use the same one on a regular basis.