Parliament Square (Management) Bill [HL]

Lord Campbell of Alloway Excerpts

Friday 27th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

My Lords, in some senses, we are surprised that we are here. As the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, explained, we all thought that the fox had been shot—if that is not too rigorous or loud a metaphor—with the passing of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act, since that seemed to have caught all the points that he raised. But of course it does not. All we seem to have gained as a result of that is exchanging a few tents, with presumably very serious protestors, for a battered police van which rather destroys the beauty of the square. But no doubt, as we have heard, processes are going ahead and things will get resolved.

So why are we here? If the Government are convinced that their legislation has solved the issue, it is surprising that they have found time for the Bill to come back. However, we welcome it. It is helpful to have a further debate, because things are perhaps not quite as clear-cut as we thought. There still remain in our minds the issues raised particularly at Second Reading when the then Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Browning, was unable to deal completely with the issues about areas adjacent to Parliament Square, which are still likely to be infiltrated and used by those who wish to protest in a lawful way. The measures that have been put through do not necessarily deal with that. There is still an issue regarding the area immediately outside the Houses of Parliament and adjacent to the Palace and Parliament Square which has not been resolved. Perhaps there is a case for maintaining interest in this Bill, which we could use to clear up some of the other issues. But that is for another day.

As the noble Lord said, this is the Persil amendment—a softer touch to that put forward in the original Bill. It will provide a gentler, more cleansing effect than perhaps the phrasing in the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act. On that basis, the amendment is totally unexceptional and we support it.

[Lord Campbell of Alloway]

My Lords, I support the amendment, with gratitude to my noble friend for having entered into this difficult problem. The Joint Committee considered the issue for a long time and took a lot of evidence. Its view is recorded, as is the evidence, in a second vast volume. This is an important matter. The noble Lord mentioned human rights. It has been trespassed upon by a misunderstanding or misconception of human rights as they should be applied. There is a recent decision, which is today reported in the Times, where the court has said that in a similar context there would be no question of infringing human rights because the right of expression could be made elsewhere and otherwise. I therefore support the amendment.

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, rightly pointed out that we have a problem with areas adjacent to the square and suggested that this Bill might be a vehicle for dealing with that. He went on to say that that is a matter for another day. In agreeing with him in his speculation, perhaps I may ask the Minister to tell us how there shall be a connection made between the two pieces of legislation so that we do not put this on the statute book and close the door on this option—or, equally, that we do not keep it for ever off the statute book because we are waiting for the door to open.