House of Lords Act 1999 (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Lord Butler of Brockwell Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 9th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Erroll (CB)]

My Lords, I wish to make a quick point and not detain noble Lords. This series of amendments—from Amendment 5 onwards—is about trying to modify the electoral system to make it more sensible. That is something I do not object to at all. If one wants to have a debate about the hereditary Peers election system, one should probably at some point do something. I am not sure that this Bill is the right place to do it but there is an effort here to have a more sensible system. The reason I voted previously in the way that I did was because until we remove the power of the head of the Executive—in other words, the Prime Minister—to appoint everyone, either directly or indirectly, to the Chamber that is passing laws to control that process, I think we must resist any reform. If you change the powers of the Prime Minister to appoint people to the Lords, then I am with you and we can move forward as a democracy.

[Lord Butler of Brockwell (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, has asked for an assurance from the Minister. She will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that she has given the assurance that the Government will not let this Bill pass, and that if it did pass in your Lordships’ House, the Government would not allow it to pass in the House of Commons. If the Minister will repeat that, I think that we can bring this procedure, which does no credit to this House, to an end.

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen]

My Lords, I think noble Lords will understand that I cannot give assurances about what happens in the other place; I can only state from this Dispatch Box the Government’s position at the moment.

[Lord Butler of Brockwell]

My Lords, surely, if the noble Baroness gives an assurance on the Government’s position, that will determine what happens in another place.

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen]

I have nothing to add to what I said earlier.