British Sign Language Bill

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 25th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, I am pleased to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, whom I thank for her very well-directed comments, which I am sure will be well received.

I am delighted to support the Bill and congratulate Rosie Cooper on introducing it and securing its passage through the other place. As the daughter of deaf parents, she knows all about the challenges of deafness and the importance and richness of sign language. As the parent of a deaf daughter, I have learned so much about the deaf community in the UK and worldwide. I have limited use of sign language—I can finger spell—but I greatly appreciate the skill of BSL interpreters and have campaigned to increase their number and status. I hope that the Bill will encourage more.

I have campaigned in many ways on behalf of deaf people, with varying degrees of success. I am an honorary vice-president of the National Deaf Children’s Society and the RNID, of which I am a former trustee. I am also a special representative of DeafKidz International. Over the years, I have supported all efforts to give legal recognition to sign languages. As a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, I was a rapporteur on sign languages, and I tried to include sign language in the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages.

As my noble friend Lady Thomas pointed out, the only place where BSL is required to be used by law is our courts, and that is specifically because of the requirements of the European Convention on Human Rights. Even so, that has not always gone smoothly: cases have been dropped because no sign language interpreter was available. I hope that the Bill will lead to an increase in the number of qualified interpreters generally.

It is ironic that languages such as Welsh, Gaelic and even Cornish have recognition in the United Kingdom, but BSL, an indigenous language, does not. Indeed, Welsh and Gaelic have their own TV channels, although there are few people for whom these are their only language—yet, for some profoundly deaf people, BSL is their essential first language. I have been disappointed that, on occasions, Ministers have sought to deprioritise sign language, quoting limited numbers. I believe that the numbers are irrelevant. For our deaf fellow citizens, BSL is their passport to work, relationships and participation in the wider community. They have a right for that to be recognised.

After years of campaigning, I realised there was a need for an all-party group on deafness, and I thank all those who helped to establish one and keep it going. There are so many discrete issues affecting deaf people, ranging across access to audiology, digital hearing aids, subtitling, telephone communication, interpreters, et cetera. We were honoured to have Jack Ashley as our president—he gave us unstinting support.

As a rapporteur for the Council of Europe, I visited Sweden and Finland and produced a report in 2003 on the protection of sign languages. This secured the support of the assembly but was not followed through by Ministers, although a number of member states did subsequently provide official recognition of sign languages, as the Scandinavian countries did long ago, even enshrining it in their constitutions.

What I learned in that process was that legal recognition has a transformational effect. It greatly increased deaf awareness and understanding of communication with deaf people. It led to the inclusion of sign languages in the curriculum. This, in turn, had two important benefits. First, it widened awareness of sign language across the population in general and, secondly, it increased the pool and deployment of sign language interpreters. I secured the support of Gordon Brown as Prime Minister for pilots, known as I-Sign, in Merseyside and Devon to train more interpreters. These proved successful, and David Cameron undertook to extend them.

When I came up in the Private Members’ Bill ballot, I introduced my own Bill in 2013. The Communication Support (Deafness) Bill addressed the needs for support for all forms of communication with deaf people, including lip-speaking, text-to-speech recognition and sign language. It also proposed a BSL board to promote sign language. Ironically, the Minister at the time, Mike Penning MP, declined to support the Bill and it was squeezed out. However, I like to think that my engagement with him might have had some effect because he is a sponsor of this Bill. As the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, has said, someone else who certainly had a galvanising effect on securing government backing is surely the inspirational Rose Ayling-Ellis, whose spectacular success in winning “Strictly Come Dancing” reached millions in showing how BSL cements the bridge between the deaf and hearing worlds.

The Bill follows similar legislation in the Scottish Parliament and the progress of sign language in Wales, which understands bilingualism better than any part of the UK. While progress has been welcome, there is nevertheless much more to be achieved in all parts of the UK. I hope that the Bill will be the start of a transformation.

I completely understand and endorse the deaf community’s wish to see this Bill pass unamended into law, but I have some questions for the Minister. The simplest and most welcome provision is Clause 1(1), which simply states:

“British Sign Language is recognised as a language of England, Wales and Scotland.”


Hallelujah to that. However, I ask the Minister to explain what the following subsection means:

“Subsection (1) does not affect the operation of any enactment or rule of law.”


Do the Government envisage offering BSL as a language option within the school curriculum? I know that the RNID has been working on that. It has proved popular and had enormous benefits in countries where this is the case. Will the Government reconsider giving support to the further development of video relay services which help sign language users communicate remotely, not just for work and business purposes, but for family and relationships?

Although not directly related to only BSL, when can the Government achieve their commitment to ensuring that the captioning—namely, subtitling—signing and audio description of streaming services are brought fully into force? It is now nearly five years since the Digital Economy Act was passed, giving the Government the power to regulate these services. It is over a year since Ofcom gave the Government final recommendations on how this should work. So when will the secondary legislation be brought forward? I appreciate that it may not be the Minister’s direct responsibility, but I hope that she will be able to reply, either now or in writing.

As we have mentioned, the Bill excludes Northern Ireland, where British Sign Language and Irish Sign Language are both used. Is the Minister aware of any proposals to introduce similar legislation for the Province? Finally, in Clause 3, the Secretary of State is required to

“issue guidance … about the promotion and facilitation of the use of British Sign Language.”

Will Ministers engage with the private sector to encourage wider support for BSL through VRS and face-to-face interpretation?

Like my noble friend Lady Thomas, I commend my friend David Buxton on his tireless, cheerful and good-natured campaigning on behalf of his community. Thousands of deaf people are cheering this Bill on. Let it be the start of a revolution in deaf awareness in the UK.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office and Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, it is indeed a special day for us, and I am delighted that this Bill has come before your Lordships’ House. I join all noble Lords in thanking my noble friend Lord Holmes for bringing forward this important Bill. I pay tribute to the honourable Member for West Lancashire, who has worked tirelessly with my honourable friend the Minister for Disabled People to build such great cross-party support for this Bill.

The Government are committed to supporting all people with a disability, including deaf people, to lead fulfilled, independent lives. For deaf people, this must include the ability to communicate with others through BSL or other forms of deaf communication. As my honourable friend the Minister for Disabled People has said, BSL is a rich, vibrant language in its own right that helps to build a sense of community for many deaf BSL signers. This was made absolutely clear—as the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, has already said—to all who attended last week’s Sign Language Week rally, which had to be moved to Trafalgar Square, organised by the British Deaf Association.

Deaf people from across the country came together to mark the 19th anniversary of the recognition of BSL as a language in its own right by the UK Government. But this year’s rally was filled with a sense of great anticipation that this Bill would place this recognition into law, and we must not let them down. Attendees eagerly watched the Bill’s Third Reading, and the message from Members in the other place was clear: they want us to pass this Bill and for the Government to get on with delivering for BSL signers and the deaf community. This is what we intend to do.

As my noble friend Lord Holmes has set out, this Bill recognises BSL as a language of England, Wales and Scotland and places a duty on the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to issue guidance on the promotion and facilitation of BSL. It also requires the Secretary of State to report on information supplied by ministerial departments regarding their use of BSL. We are going further. Alongside the Bill, my honourable friend the Minister for Disabled people has announced a suite of non-statutory measures that will help promote and facilitate the use of BSL. These include: establishing a non-statutory advisory board of British Sign Language signers to advise the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on matters relating to BSL; examining how we might increase the number of BSL interpreters; reviewing how we might work in DWP to ensure the Access to Work fund better helps BSL signers; and considering how the Government can further facilitate and promote BSL usage. We hope that, alongside these measures, we will see an increase in the use of BSL across society.

Noble Lords have raised a number of questions, which I will seek to address. The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, asked about BSL guidance. As I have said, Clause 3 places a duty on the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to issue guidance on the promotion and facilitation of BSL, which will be developed together with deaf BSL signers as part of the remit of the non-statutory board. Guidance may include advice on reporting requirements, but also on best practice for BSL communications, and could include case studies setting out the value of BSL provision. The intention is that the Government would work with the board of BSL signers, as I have said, to explore the best approaches to ensure that the guidance is targeted at everyday interactions for deaf BSL signers and helps service providers and public authorities adhere to the requirements of the Equality Act 2010, in particular the duty to make reasonable adjustments and the public sector equality duty.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, also raised the issue of the progress of a BSL GCSE, as did the noble Lord, Lord Bruce. I can confirm that the DfE is working closely with subject experts to develop draft subject content for a BSL GCSE. The DfE is also working with Ofqual to ensure that the subject content can be assessed appropriately. The department is aiming to consult publicly on the draft subject content later in 2022. The Minister for Disabled People has written to the Minister for School Standards to better understand if there is any potential to expedite this process.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, asked about interpretation for local councillors holding surgeries. Councils are required by the Equality Act to make “reasonable adjustments” to accommodate the needs of disabled councillors, who would otherwise be placed in a position of disadvantage compared with non-disabled councillors.

The noble Baroness also raised the important question of whether jobseekers will be able to access BSL. The DWP helps deaf people access our services in a number of ways. The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, raised the point about the video relay service. I will give more detail on that later, but it is available for all DWP services through GOV.UK. For existing deaf customers who require BSL, Jobcentre Plus work coaches are able to book a face-to-face BSL interpreter to come to appointments to help people. If a deaf person attends a jobcentre to seek access to a DWP service, they will be signposted to use the video relay service via GOV.UK and, where necessary, a future appointment can be arranged for a face-to-face appointment with a BSL interpreter.

The noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, asked me about the United Nations and the disabled group. I will write to her on that. I thank the noble Baroness for her help in arranging for somebody to teach me to use sign language to say, “I beg to move”. However, I have failed on this occasion because I do not have to say it—so I am saving it for another day.

Perhaps I may just say, in full agreement with the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, and others, that we will never forget the performance of Rose Ayling-Ellis. It lifted our hearts and it has had a profound effect, for which we are all grateful.

I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, for his efforts to promote the issues of deaf people and the various groups that he has worked with. I know that he tabled some legislation before. This has been a long time coming, but we have got there in the end. That is why we must make sure that this Bill passes.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, asked why we do not make BSL an official language and said that the Bill does not go far enough. Other languages of the UK, including English, do not have official recognition, so it would be inappropriate to make an exception for BSL. Welsh is an official language in Wales only. The Bill provides for statutory recognition of BSL as a language, which gives the assurances sought by deaf charities and the BSL signers they represent.

The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, raised the important point about Clause 3 on guidance for business and the private sector. Guidance intended for the public sector will be useful to the private sector as it will set out information about BSL form and functions, and set out case studies that are relevant and can be useful to the private sector. He also raised the point about a province being recognised. I did not catch the province, so I hope he will allow me to read Hansard and write to him to confirm the answer—I will be most grateful. I have already made reference to the video relay services that the noble Lord mentioned. Progress has been made in this area. A number of service and telecommunications companies have introduced a video relay service which allows deaf people to communicate with non-British Sign Language signers via an interpreter using video phones.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

I am very grateful and appreciate the development of VRS, but a lot of deaf people are concerned, because they want it for social purposes and these services cost quite a lot of money. I have been pressing for the Government to look at ways of getting affordable access so that deaf people can use it not just for work but for relationships, family and personal reasons. I hope the Minister might take that away.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I will take that back to my colleague the Minister for Disabled People, and write to the noble Lord, and place a copy in the Library for the whole House.

The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, raised the point about the Bill affecting

“the operation of any enactment or rule of law.”

The rationale for Clause 1(2) is to ensure legal certainty so that recognition of BSL will not generate confusion or disputes. In particular, the purpose and effect of Clause 1(2) is to leave the existing balance of legal protections of the Equality Act 2010 unaffected.

The noble Baroness, Lady Merron, asked how broad the guidance and reporting requirements will be. Clause 2 requires the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to regularly report on what each relevant ministerial department detailed in the schedule to the Bill has done to promote and facilitate the use of BSL in its communications with the public. These communications could include public announcements, publication of a plan, strategy or consultation document, or activities promoting its work—for example, press conferences. The reporting requirements will be for UK ministerial departments to comply with, not for individual hospitals or schools. This reporting will give us a much better understanding of how BSL is being used across government and how we can continue to improve communication for BSL signers.

I shall finish by saying two things. First, I too endorse the great work of David Buxton. He has been spoken of with great affection and great dignity and I and my Benches join in that tribute. Let us be absolutely clear: we want this Bill to go through, as it is very important. Expectations are high, commitment is high and, as I said on the previous Private Member’s Bill, if any noble Lord has any issues, please come and see us so that when we get to Committee there will be no amendments and the Bill will pass in time for a great celebration by the people for whom this will make a great change to their lives.

British Sign Language Bill

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

3rd reading
Wednesday 27th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, at Second Reading we had a first in your Lordships’ House: proceedings were signed for the first time. As the Lord Speaker has pointed out, there is another first for your Lordships’ House today: signing is available for the benefit of Members and all others in the Chamber this afternoon.

The British Sign Language Bill takes a ministerial commitment in a Statement in 2003 and puts it on a statutory basis: to recognise British Sign Language as a language in England, Scotland and Wales—enabling, empowering, including. What does this mean in practice? Take, for example, hospital appointments. The news may or may not be good but, whether good or bad, it will always be personal, perhaps the most personal interaction we have with the state. As a result of this Bill, BSL signers will be able to have such appointments and/or communications with the state in an inclusive manner, rather than having to rely on parents, spouses, siblings or children to communicate such news.

I pay particular thanks to Rosie Cooper MP, who perfectly piloted this Bill through the Commons; she joins us at the Bar of your Lordships’ House today. I thank the ministerial team, my honourable friend Chloe Smith in another place, and my noble friends Lady Stedman-Scott and Lady Scott in your Lordships’ House.

I pay tribute to the Bill team and to all the officials at DWP who have worked tirelessly to get the Bill to this stage. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I pay tribute to all those individuals and organisations who have campaigned for this change for so many years: the BDA, the RNID and David Buxton, a man who has done as much as most in this area, and who rightly joins us in the Gallery of your Lordships’ House for this historic moment.

My Lords, the British Sign Language Bill: enabling, empowering and including BSL signers, and benefiting us all.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, this is an historic day for the deaf community, who have campaigned for many years for recognition of their language. But it is also our language, and the clue is in the title: British Sign Language. It is the language of the deaf community of Scotland, Wales and England.

It is also the means by which the deaf community integrate and exchange with the hearing community. This Bill is not the end; it is the beginning of the deaf community’s ability to take their rights forward, to use their language and to develop it to advance their quality of life across the range.

I urge deaf people to take advantage of the law to demand their rights and to ensure that we get more interpreters in more situations, enabling them to communicate in every way possible—personally, privately, commercially, professionally—as the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, has said, in education, health and all the spheres which we, as hearing people, take for granted.

David Buxton is in the Gallery with other representatives of the deaf community and Rosie Cooper is here at the Bar. They have all worked so hard to make this day a historic start for the deaf community. It is a beginning, not an end, and I urge deaf people to take advantage of it.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, I too pay tribute to all those involved with the Bill, especially my honourable friend Rosie Cooper, who not only steered this Bill through another place but built such wonderful cross-party support to bring us to where we are today. The noble Lord, Lord Holmes, did a fine job carrying it through this House, so I thank and commend him too.

It is such a privilege to know that finally, the words we say here are being interpreted for BSL users at home, so I thank and congratulate all those BSL users who have campaigned to get to this point today. I encourage them to keep up the pressure.

I was sorry to miss the earlier stages of this Bill—also due to Covid—but I was very grateful to my noble friend Lady Merron, who did such a great job at the Dispatch Box that I was not missed in the slightest. Indeed, there were no calls for me to return. I am also grateful to Milton Brown from our Opposition Whips’ Office, who worked very hard on this Bill and the other DWP Bill that concluded today.

I was very moved by the stories told during the passage of this Bill of gifted BSL users being denied opportunities, and, as the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, said, of children having to interpret for their parents in situations they should never have been exposed to, simply because they could not get the interpreters they should have had a right to.

I hope that as the Bill goes through, people watching at home and in the Gallery are confident that it is one more step in making our country a better place for BSL users and their families. We are very pleased to support this Bill.