Tenant Fees Bill

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 10th October 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, this Bill takes forward essential measures to promote fairness and affordability in the private lettings market by banning unfair fees charged to tenants and capping tenancy deposits—a significant move by the Government to protect consumers in the private rented sector and a commitment made in the Government’s manifesto.

It is a Bill that should be welcomed by all across this House. I echo the sentiments of the other place that it will make the market more transparent and will save tenants, especially young people and families, hundreds of pounds. Government amendments made in the other place reflect the debate there and have ensured that the Bill will firmly deliver on this intention.

The Bill’s measures have also been informed by consultation with the sector and through the scrutiny of the Housing, Communities and Local Government Select Committee. In line with the Secretary of State’s comments, I extend my thanks to all those who have made invaluable contributions to this process. We can all agree that this engagement has ensured that the Bill will be even more effective in delivering on its promise to protect tenants from unfair charges.

I am pleased that the Bill is now before the House. It is an integral part of the Government’s broader reform to create a housing market that works for everyone. I have been moved by the extensive support for banning unfair fees, and I am grateful for the work that the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, has done previously to raise this issue. That is why I am happy that we are taking the decisive action to bring forward this change.

The housing market is changing. The proportion of households living in privately rented homes has doubled over the past 20 years. This accounts for a fifth of all households in England—approximately 4.7 million households. While this has brought new challenges, we have been consistently clear that whether you rent or own your home, you deserve to have a safe, secure and affordable place to call your own. Banning unfair tenant fees and removing rogue operators is another step that the Government are taking to make this happen. It is abundantly clear that tenants need greater protection from such abuse and poor service. To that end, we have given local authorities greater tools to crack down on poor practice in the sector. In April, we introduced banning orders and a database of rogue landlords and agents. We are backing a Bill in the other place which will enable tenants to take their landlords to court if the properties that they rent do not meet minimum standards of fitness for human habitation. We have also committed to mandatory electrical safety checks every five years and are working to bring these regulations into force as soon as possible, subject to parliamentary timetabling.

However, we know that this is only part of the problem. We want to give tenants greater confidence that they can complain about problems with their home without the fear of eviction. In June, we published our new and updated “how to” guides, including for the first time a How to Let guide for landlords to help ensure that tenants and landlords alike are aware of their rights and responsibilities.

Today is World Homelessness Day. This offers an important opportunity to consider the insecurity facing some private renters. My department recently consulted on overcoming the barriers to landlords offering longer and more secure tenancies in the private rented sector. That consultation received more than 8,000 responses, which we are currently analysing and will respond to shortly. The volume of responses demonstrates the importance of a good quality and secure rented home, which the Government are committed to delivering.

We also know that we need to make housing more affordable. That is why my department is focused on building many more houses in the places where people want to live. Since 2010, we have delivered 378,000 affordable homes in England, including 273,000 for rent, and I am confident that the Government’s ambitious housebuilding programme will deliver the transformations required in the years to come. It is also important that we help people now. That is what the Tenant Fees Bill will help to achieve. It will ensure that tenants will no longer be stung by hidden costs, saving renters an estimated £240 million within the first year alone.

These costs include unfair letting fees, with tenants facing bills for hundreds of pounds for simple things such as reference checks. We know that such services can be acquired on the market for a small fee, but the Government’s 2017 consultation found that tenants have to pay an average of £137 for a reference check. Then they are hit by fees for drawing up a tenancy agreement, for inventory checks and even for just picking up keys for their property. This, I should underline, is all alongside their deposit and the first month’s rent up front. It does not stop there. There are fees on renewal, and fees when they leave the property. Tenants often have little choice but to pay excessive and unjustified charges time and time again. They are stripped of their power to negotiate these fees as agents are appointed by landlords, some of whom use tenant fees to subsidise artificially low rates charged to landlords or grossly exaggerate the market value of such services.

We are not just talking about rogue landlords and agents here—we know that well-known high street chains are charging both tenants and landlords for the same services. These charges create a further financial barrier in a system which is stacked against tenants, many of whom are trying to save to buy their own home. It is a problem right across the country. That is why we must intervene to create a level playing field. A ban on unfair fees ensures that whoever contracts the service—in this case the landlord—pays for that service. This is integral to a fair market and, more plainly, it is common sense. Some agents and landlords already operate successful business models without charging fees to tenants. Under the ban, tenants will be better placed to shop around for a property that fits their budget, safe in the knowledge that the price they see is the price they will pay.

This Bill also protects tenants from paying unreasonably high deposits. We are capping deposits at six weeks’ rent. I should stress that this is an upper limit and not a recommendation. We expect landlords to find an appropriate level on a case-by-case basis and we will provide guidance to this effect. There has been no law on the maximum amount of a deposit previously. In Scotland, tenancy deposits are capped at eight weeks’ rent and there is no evidence to suggest that deposits have increased to meet this cap. A cap of six weeks’ rent offers a balance of greater protection to tenants while giving landlords the flexibility to accept higher risk tenants such as pet owners or those currently living abroad. It also gives landlords adequate financial security. This is vital to maintain investment and supply in the sector. More broadly, we want to ensure that tenancy deposits work for both tenants and landlords. That is why we have recently established a working group within the department looking at the merits of innovative and more affordable approaches to tenancy deposits—such as deposit passporting, where a deposit can be transferred from one tenancy to another. It is anticipated that this will report in the spring of 2019.

Let me be clear: this Bill is not an attack on good agents and landlords. We value the important services they provide. Letting agents who represent good value for money for landlords will continue to thrive because they will no longer be undercut by those who rely on overcharging and double-charging fees to sustain their business. We have also committed to regulation to improve standards in the sector and drive out rogue operators. At the moment, anyone can set themselves up as a property agent regardless of their background, skills or experience. Many agents take a professional approach and sign up to standards of practice through membership of a professional body. But others do not, and a lack of minimum standards has allowed unscrupulous agents to enter the sector—exploiting both tenants and landlords. We are committed to introducing minimum training standards and a code of practice. We are establishing a working group that will be chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Best, and we will provide further details on the membership and terms of reference of this group in the next few days. I will ensure that I write to noble Lords who are participating in the debate and place a copy in the Library.

We are also requiring agents to join a client money protection scheme, and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Palmer—who is not in his place at present—and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, for their considerable work in this area. Mandatory client money protection will ensure that each and every agent is providing landlords and tenants with the financial protection that they want and deserve.

The key provisions of the Bill apply to assured shorthold tenancies, tenancies of student accommodation and licences to occupy housing. Clauses 1 and 2 ban landlords and agents from requiring the tenants and licensees of privately rented housing in England, including persons acting on their behalf or guaranteeing their rent, to make any payments in connection with a tenancy. Some key exceptions to the ban, as detailed in Schedule 1, are classed as “permitted payments”. These include the payment of rent, a refundable deposit capped at six weeks’ rent, and a holding deposit capped at one week’s rent. Landlords and agents will also be able to charge a tenant for payments associated with early termination or varying a tenancy where these are requested by the tenant. Other permitted payments include any reasonable costs made in connection with the tenant defaulting on a requirement under the tenancy and payments in respect of utilities, communication services and council tax. In the Bill, the term “in connection with a tenancy” refers to any payments required by the landlord or agent throughout a tenancy. This is an important point. We have ensured that this protection extends to all stages of the lettings process so that tenants are not hit with hidden charges further down the line. We brought forward amendments to this effect in the Commons on Report.

We heard the concerns that the provision permitting landlords and agents to charge a fee in the event of a tenant’s default could, as previously drafted, represent a loophole. There was agreement to the principle that it is only right that agents and landlords should not have to foot the bill owing to a fault of the tenant. However, we also want to make sure that such a provision is not abused. The amendments made in the other place will ensure that landlords and agents will now be proactively required to demonstrate through written evidence that their charges are reasonable, such as in the form of receipts and invoices. We firmly believe that this increases the protections for tenants and minimises the risk of abuse.

The legislation also prevents tenants from being required to contract the services of a third party. Again, this has been included in the Bill to ensure that landlords and agents are not able to circumvent the ban by requiring tenants to pay fees by other means. However, we have ensured that tenants are free to contract agents and pay for additional support with setting up a tenancy should they choose to do so, provided that the agent does not also work on behalf of the landlord. This may be the case, for example, where they are relocating or live abroad.

The legislation proposes amendments to the transparency requirements in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which require an agent to display information about their fees and membership of redress and client money protection schemes prominently in their office and on their website. The Bill will extend these transparency requirements to online property portals, since many tenants use them to find a home. The Bill will require letting agents to display the name of their client money protection scheme rather than simply whether they are a member of such a scheme. These amendments are vital to ensure that existing legislation remains fit for purpose in the context of today’s market. We intend to provide separate consumer guidance on how the ban will affect landlords and tenants. We are currently working with industry groups to get this right and will share a version with the House during the passage of the Bill. As soon as the guidance is available, I will ensure that it is placed in the Library and that noble Lords receive a copy.

The Bill proposes a number of enforcement measures that offer a strong deterrent to irresponsible agents and landlords, and in doing so, protect tenants. We introduced amendments in the Commons to further strengthen the enforcement provisions and ensure that where things go wrong, tenants will have proper access to redress. First and foremost, the Bill places a duty on trading standards authorities to enforce the ban. Trading standards authorities do a good job of enforcing current regulations on letting agents. With their existing local knowledge of the industry, they are the clear choice to enforce the ban on letting fees. District councils will also have the power to enforce the ban, if they choose to do so. We want to encourage joint working across different tiers of local authorities, bringing together local housing authorities’ experience of enforcing housing legislation and trading standards’ experience of enforcing fair trading.

The Bill makes provision for a lead enforcement authority to provide oversight, guidance and support with the enforcement of requirements on letting agents. This includes the ban on letting fees and related provisions. This approach is one that has worked well in the estate agency sector. The lead enforcement authority will be the Secretary of State or a local trading standards officer who is appointed to the role. The lead enforcement authority will be responsible for issuing guidance to which all local enforcement authorities must have regard when enforcing the legislation. This guidance is still being finalised to reflect ongoing engagement with local authorities and the journey of the Bill through this House. I will share a draft with noble Lords before Committee stage.

Secondly, the Bill makes provision to enable tenants and other relevant people to recover their unlawfully charged fees. The Bill will encourage this as a ban. which is much easier to understand than the existing transparency requirements. In addition, landlords will be prevented from recovering their property via the Section 21 Housing Act 1988 procedure until they have repaid any unlawfully charged fees or unlawfully retained holding deposits. In terms of sanctions, landlords and agents will be liable for a financial penalty or prosecution for each individual breach of the ban that they commit. An initial breach of the fees ban will usually be a civil offence with a financial penalty of up to £5,000. Where a further breach is committed within five years, this will amount to a criminal offence and be liable to a fine. In such a case, local authorities will have discretion whether to prosecute or impose a financial penalty. They may impose a financial penalty of up to £30,000 as an alternative to prosecution and the penalty. We consider that this will act as a serious deterrent to prolific offenders. Local authorities will be able to retain the funds raised through financial penalties, with that money reserved for future local housing enforcement.

We also intend to provide up to £500,000 additional funding in year one of the policy to support implementation and awareness raising. My department engaged with over 160 local authorities at five summer events better to understand their resourcing needs, including how they intend to enforce the Bill, and will use this knowledge to ensure that we make the best use of the additional funding.

These important measures are above all intended to promote fairness. This Government will always stand against injustice. We recognise the need to rebalance the relationship between tenants, landlords and agents. By banning fees for tenants and capping deposits, we are delivering on our commitment to make renting fairer, more transparent and more affordable. It will make a real difference to millions of tenants across the country, especially for young people and families, and to the millions who will call the private rented sector home in the future. I beg to move.

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[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as listed in the register. I will say at the outset that I shall make a few comments that the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, passed on to me because he was not able to stay for this debate. He is very well informed on this subject, as all noble Lords will be aware.

I think that there has to be an understanding. I strongly support the idea that no agent should be able to charge both sides and make a double killing; that is almost immoral, and it is certainly very much against the tenants if they have to pay twice. But the noble Earl made the point that not all tenants are pleasant, honest or good, and we must not be carried away with the idea that all landlords are bad and all tenants are good. That is not the way that things are. This is about a transaction between adults. These are the points that he was making.

The noble Earl says that there is a huge amount of advice available to renters. Funnily enough, I have not found that myself; I found that the amount of advice for renters is not perhaps as adequate as it could be. The inequalities in bargaining power and opportunities for exploitation are very high in areas of very high value or deprived locations, and they are not necessarily representative of the entire market. Checking out tenant credentials is a repetitive activity and, because of the significant liabilities in relation to some of these, such as the right to rent, they add to the cost, which needs to be met somehow. It is true that references have to be taken up and nationality has to be proved, along with the right to be in the country; quite a lot of things come up with that. I hope the noble Earl will join in at later stages of the Bill because I believe that he has a considerable part to play.

I know that everyone is well aware of the interest I have in short-term lettings—holiday lets—and the damage that that is doing to ordinary tenants. Recently the Mayor of London made a statement about the damage that it has done and how the huge loss of rental properties is very much against tenants’ interests. People want properties available to rent, and for them to be reasonable to live in and enjoy. I have quoted before about the block in which I have had an interest in properties for many years, with long-term tenants of over five years in one and four years in the other. I am lucky to have them, because we have had all these terrible tenancies, totally illegally. People have been letting on short holiday lets, although that is strictly banned in the leases they have. These people are terrorising others in the block. One particular lady in her 90s is abused all the time. Rotting food is left everywhere around the building.

It is quite incredible that it is so bad now because power has been taken away from local authorities. When I have asked Questions for Written Answer about whether the Government would encourage local authorities to apply to have control in these matters again, the answer has always been a definite no. The Government are just not interested. They should be interested, because if local authorities had a right to register properties, there would be a safer position for lots of people. I do not think that it is fair.

To mention in passing, because it has been a long battle and is another very important point regarding the landlords’ situation: you cannot really ask people to abide by a lease for short lets for Airbnb. I spoke to the Minister when he was going to have a meeting with Airbnb. He said it told him that it asks people whether they have a right to sublet. But I asked Airbnb the same question, and it told me it does not, although it had said yes to the Minister. What is the truth? Only by some external authority being able to take over, such as local authorities if they were willing, is there going to be anyone checking on these things. At long last, under the right to manage scheme, you can only obtain—what is the word? Reclaiming the property. I am sure that everyone knows the word.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

Repossession.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

That is it. I hope Hansard was able to take that down. You can only do that if you are the head lessee or the freeholder. If you have set up your right to manage, there is a legal link missing which does not authorise you to recover the property for compensation if it has been mishandled. The woman who owns the places that are being let illegally—three or four blocks, one is normally a brothel and the other three are Airbnbs or something similar—has had herself certified under the Mental Health Act, so during that time no one was able to repossess anything.

Now the Court of Protection has appointed someone to take over, and it is all under way. As soon as these people put out the illegal people, they smashed all the windows and external structures in the brothel, which is in the basement, and the other places are being attacked on other floors. This is very disturbing. If you were a tenant living in that flat, you would be very worried about your personal safety, and would think, “Is what I’m paying fair?”, for a place that is just being allowed to do whatever it wants because there are no suitable controls.

Again, I make a plea to the Minister that it should be possible for local authorities that wish to do so to be able to return to the short-let licensing which they had in the past. That would protect long-term residents in a block, and the Mayor of London is absolutely right to say that these short lets have reduced the number of properties available in London. It is therefore quite right that people should be checked in all these financial ways. However, I recall clearly when I used to let the basement of the first house I ever lived in and Harold Wilson’s Government brought in a complete freezing of rents. That was ineffective, and worked so badly that after a while it had to be removed again. When that happened, everything went through the ceiling overnight. So it is far better to have a housing market that develops in a more normal way and works out for people in a fair way on both sides. I commend the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, for what she has done on this. It is an important but small part of a huge problem that the Government should be allowing local authorities to get on with.

I have one comment about the Written Answer I received the other day. The latest problem is commercial waste. People who come on holiday lets put out rubbish at the end, on any old day they feel like. The Answer I received said that this was commercial waste. If it is commercial, only the council can arrange to collect it—but how can it arrange to collect the rubbish fee if it has no idea who is to pay it, and when that person has vanished? This is a new problem, and apparently it is occurring all over London; waste is building up because it is just thrown out on any old day you happen to leave the place. I have said more than enough; I just wanted to give noble Lords a feeling of my views. I will look to see if there is anywhere I can add a little to the Bill.

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[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, we have had a very valuable debate and I am grateful for noble Lords’ contributions, which have taken us round the circuit to look at the main provisions of the Bill, possible lacunae in the Bill and, in some cases, things that are extraneous to the Bill, which I will try to deal with. I will take the contributions in the order they were made and will try to provide answers. If I am unable to—some very technical issues were raised, quite rightly—I will ensure that a write-round letter goes to all Peers who participated in the debate and a copy is left in the Library.

I thank our partners who have helped in framing the legislation and discussing relevant issues. Again, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, for her role and—she should take a double bow here, really—in relation to Shelter, which has been valuable; I also thank Generation Rent, Citizens Advice and of course the LGA, which is close on much of the detail of this, as your Lordships would expect. I will try to pick that up as I go along.

First, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for his general support. I agree that—it was a recurring theme—most landlords and agents act appropriately and we are dealing with the exception. That does not make it any less important but it is vital that we indicate that the issues that need looking at are in relation to only a minority. The noble Lord raised issues about the level of deposit, which I appreciate is something we will want to look at ahead of Committee. I am happy to give a commitment to look at the issues that were raised. Comments were made by at least one Member about Committee stage being in Grand Committee. I understand from speaking to my Whips and Whips in other parties that it is not unusual for Committee stage to be taken in Grand Committee because votes in Committee are very rare; it would be more unusual, certainly, on Report. That is the point. This was done through the usual channels, as noble Lords will appreciate.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked about the novation provisions in Schedule 1. Again, only reasonable costs can be covered in relation to that. That is true also in relation to the cost of default fees. As I said, that was added as an amendment in the other place. I appreciate from comments made by noble Lords that we will want to look at that ahead of Committee to see how we can improve it. The noble Lord also raised the interaction between district councils and trading standards, which is the relevant authority that has been designated. Regulations can be made, I believe, by the Secretary of State under Clause 7, which governs that issue.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked about compensation in relation to recovery of a deposit that is improperly held. I think that would be unusual. This is somebody suing for a debt. If there is a loss that emanates from the lease under normal contractual principles, either the tenant or the landlord would be able to sue for that compensation. Compensation is only in relation to a loss. If it is a matter under the lease, that should be subject to normal contractual principles. The noble Lord asked, quite rightly, about transparency and for that to be given a prominent role in relation to the naming of the agent. I can confirm that the legislation requires this to be prominently displayed. This is something that we would want as well, so I thank him for raising that.

I thank also the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, for her supportive comments and for her work on this. I share with her the view that there is no evidence of rent increases in Scotland, where this is operational, being any different from the rest of the country. So far as one can see, they are broadly in line. I also share with her the need to keep the beneficiaries of the Bill much in mind. I agree that openrent.co.uk is a successful business model, which is worth looking at. It is also notable that most landlords support the legislation, which is reassuring. We will no doubt return to the issue of default fees.

The intention here, as I think all Peers appreciate, is to cover situations where something is taken up by the agency on behalf of a tenant: the key is the classic example and in normal circumstances, that would be paid for once the receipt is given. Nevertheless, there may be such cases and I do not want to damage a possible situation by outlawing them totally and then finding that that disturbs a perfectly good relationship, where it may be easier for the agent to recover it if the tenant is working away from home and unable to do that sort of thing. Let us come back to that ahead of Committee. I think we all want the same things; it is about ensuring that we have that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Grender, also asked about the percentage of deposits being reduced—I think that was the relevant phrase—and the evidence that the citizens advice bureaux brought forward. The figure we have from our impact assessment is of 14% of deposits being reduced rather than the CABs’ 8%, so we differ on that.

I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, for the role that she has played in this general area. She talked about £240 million being taken out of the housing market overall. Of course, a lot of that will be in the reduction of charges paid for by tenants so it will be desirable to that extent. I understand her point but it is not as if this is not doing some good when it clearly is. I agree with her on one very telling phrase: one cannot owe a duty of care to two parties in a contractual relationship such as this. That point was well made and, while we do not always agree on everything, I certainly agree with her on the value of regulated markets. I do not need convincing of this and, as she rightly said, I am low down in the food chain so any support I can be given on that is certainly warmly welcomed by me. I thank her very much for her contribution.

The noble Lord, Lord Best, in declaring his interests, demonstrated why, when you want something doing, you ask a busy man or woman. I am very grateful that he is taking on the role that I outlined in the letter sent to Peers. It is welcome in relation to training for letting agents and generally ensuring that they are up to standard. I repeat: the majority are doing a good job. In his useful contribution, the noble Lord looked at the nature of the problem that we face and the possibility of side-effects. Again, I share the view that he put forward, which was also put forward by the noble Baroness, Lady Grender. I do not foresee side-effects—other than good ones, as it were.

My noble friend Lady Gardner of Parkes then made a contribution and I thank her for her general warm welcome for the legislation and her comments on it. I appreciate that she has particular issues in relation to short-term lettings. Many of these matters, if they are against the lease, should be taken up by the landlord. It sounded as if some other issues she referred to should certainly be taken up by the landlord. If, for example, there is a brothel, local authorities certainly have the power to act. No doubt we will continue the discussion on these issues.

The noble Lord, Lord Strasburger, perhaps came to it from a different direction with his experience in this area. I do not need telling that he is an ethical landlord; I am sure he is and I agree that a happy tenant is a good tenant—hence in many ways this legislation, which I am sure will help. But he is right to talk of the need to appreciate that we are trying to strike a balance between the interests of the landlord and the tenant regarding the deposit. That is something to focus on. I appreciate that there is a tendency to say that this is a particular problem for London and the south-east but the rents and the value of property are of course higher there, so in so far as we are trying to strike that balance, we need to do so throughout the country. The question is therefore about trying to get that right.

I thank my noble friend Lady Jenkin for highlighting the problem of home share and Shared Lives. I agree with her. We are aware of this issue and are engaging with Shared Lives to see how we can move forward on this. She underlined how important home share is and the great value of the work. That is something we should support in seeking to combat loneliness. That is happening on a global basis and is something we should applaud. She is right that it covers licensees. This point was also raised by the noble Baroness, Lady McDonagh. The Tenant Fees Bill applies not just to tenancies but to licences and student accommodation as well.

I shall flash forward to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, about student accommodation. It may be the answer to some of those points about shared utilities, TV licences and so on. We will double check that and cover it in the letter, but I suspect that that may be the answer. We are trying to cover the relatively small percentage of incidents where this happens. Noble Lords will appreciate that starting off with an outright ban, which I think is the right thing, and making exceptions means that we would have to have a pretty exhaustive list of exceptions. So I will pick up those points in the write-round letter.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady McDonagh, for her generally warm welcome for the legislation. I think I have dealt with the points on the Grand Committee and licences. I agree that there are issues to look at on the holding deposit, although the key point there is that there are only certain grounds on which it can be retained by the letting agent. We just need to nail that down. We can try to do that ahead of Committee, but I think that I will be able to give the reassurance sought that it is a very limited set of circumstances.

I once again thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for his broad support and I agree with his comments and his point on bringing forward local authority incentive payments for preventing homelessness. That point was echoed by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham. We are aware of the issue and we are seeking to bring forward an amendment that we think is probably necessary to allow that. I hope that we can keep in touch on that issue.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, referred to the growth of the private rented sector. That is true. It presents fresh challenges, hence the increased need for this legislation. I thank him for his support on the general point about self-financing with the fines paying the costs of setting up this system. There is a set-up cost. I have been asked to justify it. I do not have the figures to hand so I will do that in a write-round letter. I take the point that we have to look closely to make sure that that is what is happening.

The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, asked what will happen if there is a shortfall. There may be a shortfall in one year and an excess in the next year, and we would not be claiming back the excess. I think he will appreciate that there has to be some sort of smoothing mechanism; you could not look at one year in isolation. I will look at that point and pick it up in the write-round letter. It will be a long letter. I am sure noble Lords will appreciate that it will be better than a short letter that does not cover the many points that have been raised.

On electrical safety checks, the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, asked about “when parliamentary time permits”. That is a saving provision. Any Government, including even the coalition Government, will always say that. The intention is to bring this forward as quickly as possible. If I can give more information on that I will certainly do so.

There were many detailed points from the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, who also has a lawyer’s eye. I do not have the answer to many of the points that he raised but I will certainly make sure that they are covered in the letter, and I am grateful for his acquiescence on that point.

This has been a very valuable debate. As noble Lords will know, I am very keen to take this forward as far as we can on a consensual basis, because I think we all want to kick in the same direction and achieve the same things—but there is work to be done on that. With that, I beg to move that the Bill be read a second time.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Grand Committee.