Public Sector Pay Cap
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The Minister of State, Department for International Development (Lord Bates) (Con)
My Lords, with permission, I will now repeat in the form of a Statement an Answer to an Urgent Question given by my right honourable friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury in another place earlier today. The Statement is as follows:
“We all recognise that public sector workers do a fantastic job. Over the past seven years, we have seen major improvements in our public services: crime is down, with a greater proportion of police on the front line; more children are achieving higher standards at school and going on to apprenticeships and university; and our NHS is looking after more people than at any time in its history. Government pay is designed to be fair to public sector workers who work so hard to deliver these strong public services, but we must also ensure we are able to provide those public services on a sustainable basis for the future.
In many services, workers have received additional pay to the 1% national increase: teachers had an average pay rise of 3.3% in 2015-16; more than half of nurses and other NHS staff had an increase of over 3% in 2016; and military service personnel saw an average additional increase of an average 2.4%. Salaries in the public sector remain comparable to those in the private sector and, in addition, many benefit from higher pension entitlements. They also benefit from the rise in the personal tax allowance, worth £1,000 a year to a basic rate taxpayer.
We are currently completing the pay review process for 2017-18. The Government have set the remit for the pay review bodies and they have made recommendations. We have accepted the pay review recommendations made for doctors and NHS staff and the Armed Forces. We will be looking very carefully at the recommendations on the remainder, and making determinations in the usual way. As the Chancellor said on Monday, our policy on public sector pay has always been designed to strike the right balance of being fair to our public sector workers and fair to those who pay for them. That approach has not changed and the Government will continually assess that balance”.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating that Answer, although I regret its tone and what it shows about the Government’s attitude towards public sector workers. This is clearly an extensive and complex issue and I am therefore delighted that my noble friend Lord Haskel has managed to secure a debate on this very matter next Thursday, when we will have an opportunity to go into it in more detail.
The specific question that I put to the Minister today relates to the terms of reference of pay review bodies. Can the Minister tell the House whether those bodies are required to have regard for government policy with its 1% cap? If the answer is yes, surely the publication of such reports is little more than a publicity stunt.
Lord Bates
The answer to the question is yes, but it is not a publicity stunt. These are serious matters that are considered very carefully, as has been the case on many occasions for a long time. Public sector pay is set out in the Budget and that advice is contained in recommendations that are sent to the independent pay review bodies. They make their recommendations and then the Government respond, normally by way of Written Ministerial Statement, as we have done already. The situation in which we find ourselves is one of significant debt. It is worth remembering that the interest that we pay on our debt would cover the NHS pay bill in its entirety each year. These are not therefore inconsiderable matters; we ought to bear them in mind and, at the same time, try to strike the balance between fairness to those public sector workers who do so much in our society and country and having regard for the taxpayers who are paying their salaries.
Baroness Kramer (LD)
My Lords, lifting the 1% public sector pay cap has been Liberal Democrat policy since 2015. Does the Minister agree that the pay cap was brought in to prevent losses and deflation at a time of fiscal crisis? It was never intended to be prolonged and to continue into a period of high employment and inflation and, therefore, should be ended.
Lord Bates
I seem to remember that when we were in coalition with the noble Baroness’s party, there was in fact a pay freeze for two years, which was then loosened to a 1% cap. We now want to move forward: there needs to be public sector pay restraint but we want to make sure that, through progression pay and other benefits, public sector work is recognised and rewarded.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
Does my noble friend agree that the surest way to higher pay for all, including in the public and the private sectors, must be through higher growth and lower inflation? Is not the quickest way to higher growth efficient and systematic control of all public expenditure programmes and lots of new enterprise and new investment? Is it not time for some new language to explain that simple fact?
Lord Bates
My noble friend has explained it rather well. Maintaining a good solid economy is good for the economy. It controls inflation and interest rates, which are at an historic low. It has contributed to the fact that we have record levels of employment and has also enabled us to cut taxes for some of the lowest paid, taking 1.3 million people out of tax altogether.
Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister says that public pay is a balance between the pay to the individual in the service and what the individual citizen feels is fair. How have the Government assessed what the view of the citizen is as regards National Health Service staff?
Lord Bates
On that specific point, the Institute for Fiscal Studies has reported that public sector workers earn on average 13% more than those in the private sector. Secondly—this is very important—the purpose of the pay review body is to make sure that we continue to attract people into the public services and deal with employment. That is why it is interesting and helpful to note that a public sector pay review body has said:
“We do not see significant short-term nationwide recruitment and retention issues that are linked to pay”.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, as one who has from time to time found himself at odds with government policy, will my noble friend tell his colleagues in the Cabinet that we do not expect them to have their debates in public?
Lord Bates
I was just about to say that was above my pay grade and then I realised that was probably not the right term to use. The Chancellor set out the policy on public pay in the Budget. That continues to be the case. We listen very carefully to what the review bodies say and watch very carefully to see the impact that has on recruitment. That policy will continue.
Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)
My Lords, further to the excellent question by the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, when you have the Health Secretary, the Environment Secretary and even the Foreign Secretary publicly campaigning against the policy of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, what does that do for the authority and standing of the Government? Is not the Cabinet a rabble?
Lord Bates
Certainly, the Cabinet is not as the noble Lord describes. The reality of all these things is that we do not have a Cabinet of clones; we have a Cabinet of individuals—a lot of individuals who care very passionately about the areas for which they are responsible. I declare an interest as a Minister for International Development, about which I care very passionately and on which I might occasionally be prepared to make my case. But the fact of the matter is that the collective government policy is as set out by the Chancellor in the Budget. We listen carefully to the independent pay review bodies.
Lord Tugendhat (Con)
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that there is a great deal of support for the view implied in the question of my noble friend Lord Cormack? However, does he agree that perhaps we are moving towards a moment when it might be right to consider raising taxation to deal with some of the problems being discussed today?
Lord Bates
I am not sure that I agree with my noble friend in that respect because the way that we have raised tax thresholds, particularly for lower-paid workers, has meant that on average they have benefited by an additional £1,005, which is a significant increase to their salary. Further, there is the increase in the living wage, with the equivalent of a 4.2% increase for the lowest paid. Therefore, I think there are other mechanisms by which we can ensure that people’s pay and conditions improve without resorting to raising taxes.
Lord Cunningham of Felling (Lab)
My Lords, is it sensible for the Government to continue to put their faith in growth in the economy when today’s abysmal news about productivity demonstrates that it is bound to fail? Our productivity now is lower than it was a decade ago.
Lord Bates
That is why we have said that productivity is a key target. But just last year we had the fastest-growing economy in the G7. We have seen incredible growth, otherwise we would not have employment at record levels in this country, with an additional 3 million people in work. Part of the reason is because we have kept a tight grip on the public finances and have seen the deficit reduced by two-thirds. These are important contributions towards maintaining confidence in the economy going forward. However, I accept that we need to work much harder on the area of productivity.
Lord Watts (Lab)
What would the Minister say to the public sector workers who are told that there is not enough money to pay them a decent wage, while at the same time the Government can find £1 billion to give to the DUP?
Lord Bates
We would say to those people that we have independent pay review bodies which look at these matters. On Northern Ireland, there are historical challenges. Personally, I think that securing stability for the Government going forward is an important part of maintaining that path to growth, enabling us to pay down on the debts and ensure that salaries for both the public and private sectors increase in the future.
Lord Tebbit (Con)
My Lords, I am afraid that my noble friend omitted to correct the noble Lord opposite, who talked about £1 billion being given to the DUP. No such sum is being given to the DUP—it is being given to the people of Northern Ireland, to improve standards of living in Northern Ireland.
Lord Bates
Not for the first time, I am happy to stand corrected by my noble friend Lord Tebbit.
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)
My Lords, I will return to the Minister’s point about productivity. I have raised questions previously about the extent to which public servants are being encouraged to work and change their productivity and to find ways in which they might be rewarded. Can the Minister say whether any instructions are being sent to the pay review boards about this, to search for better productivity? There may be an opportunity for more money to be paid to public servants if productivity can be linked to their performance, and this may be a way out of the impasse we find ourselves in.
Lord Bates
We look at that constantly. When I was at the Home Office we looked at that with regard to the police, as reducing bureaucracy improves practices and efficiency within the police force. We were able to maintain levels of front-line policing while at the same time we saw crime falling to record lows. So all these things can be looked at and improved.
Overseas Development Assistance
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Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much United Kingdom Overseas Development Assistance is currently spent in co-operation with, or through, the European Union.
The Minister of State, Department for International Development (Lord Bates) (Con)
My Lords, the UK contributed £935 million in overseas development assistance to the EU budget in 2015 through core funding. In addition, DfID contributed £392 million to the European Development Fund. Overall, these contributions to the EU made up 10.9% of the UK’s overseas development assistance.
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)
My Lords, that is a significant contribution. The Government’s own analysis indicates that European Union development funds are among the most effective from any multilateral organisation. In the current atmosphere, perhaps there will be some let us say knee-jerk reactions from time to time about the way in which Brexit happens in relation to specific powers. Can we get a guarantee that on these programmes, which are ultimately about saving lives and about people who are in very vulnerable positions, the Government will seek a proper transition period to ensure that these programmes are not left on the edge of a cliff?
Lord Bates
I am certainly happy to give that assurance. Of course, it was the multilateral development review that we undertook last year that the EDF scored so well in. Around the world we work in partnership with the EU and through its funds, and I cannot envisage a situation where we could do that effectively in the future without working very closely with the European Union. With regard to the fund itself, decisions on whether we want to contribute or stay out will be made as part of the process of exiting the European Union. Now at least we have a choice.
Lord Deben (Con)
Will my noble friend the Minister tell me how much it is going to cost to disentangle ourselves from these arrangements in the European Union? Can I have his undertaking that none of that money will come from our overseas aid budget? If he does not have a figure, perhaps I might point out that it is the habit of this House to want to know the cost before we agree to action.
Lord Bates
A number of organisations oversee that important element of the budget. There are the Independent Commission for Aid Impact and the National Audit Office—all these organisations will be scrutinising the amounts of money that go out. In relation to the European Development Fund in particular, which is the focus of the Question, that amount is an annual supplement and therefore it should not be that difficult to make a decision on an annual basis, along with other multilateral partners, about how much we put in.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, the Government’s new approach to trade policy towards developing countries has just been released by DfID. The proposals are welcome, but they are not as generous as they may appear. The strategy addresses the EU’s “Everything But Arms” agreement, which allows for the UK to negotiate agreements unilaterally, but does not address the economic partnership agreements, which are vital to many developing countries in terms of trade going into the UK and the EU. How are the Government going to address this issue in negotiations for Brexit?
Lord Bates
The partnership agreements to which we are party will continue until we exit the European Union. The Secretary of State for International Trade and the Department for International Development announced an indication to say that with 48 countries in particular we wanted to ensure that that duty-free, tariff-free access to our markets—which is so crucial for them, as well as beneficial for us—continues. The details with regard to the other countries, again—I am sorry to keep repeating this—will be handled as part of the exiting the European Union strategy.
The Earl of Sandwich (CB)
My Lords, the problem is that we are having to think the unthinkable. It is unthinkable, for example, that we will not be beside the EU in rescuing refugees from the Mediterranean and putting them into Italian ports. Has the department made any plans for the biggest humanitarian programme, which is ECHO, and how we are going to relate to that?
Lord Bates
I share the noble Earl’s view that it is inconceivable. Wherever I travel around the world, the EU is there, represented in force. We have to remember that wherever we operate, particularly in development, we are always working in partnership. We are working in partnership with the G20—for example, at the Hamburg summit this weekend. We are working in partnership with the African Union and the UN agencies; the whole thing is about partnership. That is one of the reasons it is so effective.
Baroness Sheehan (LD)
My Lords, the Asia-Latin America programme is funded from the European budget. Therefore, the UK would no longer make direct contributions. However, the programme, particularly in Latin America, is a major source of influence in a region where we do not have a major bilateral presence, and there may be advantages in remaining part of the programme. Will the Minister assure us that some thought has been given to maintaining arrangements for the UK to remain associated with the programme?
Lord Bates
We continue to work to the UK’s strategy, which is a cross-government, cross-Whitehall approach about where our priorities should be, in consultation with our international partners. In relation to Asia, we have some bilateral programmes. One of the areas where we work quite closely is with the new Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank which has been established. We were a founder investor in that. We will continue to keep all these things open and will continue to work in partnership.
Baroness Berridge (Con)
My Lords, in a debate this morning in Westminster Hall, a number of MPs highlighted the correlation between the fragile states in which DfID spends much of its money and high levels of persecution of people on the grounds of faith or belief. I would be grateful if the Minister could assemble a meeting of interested MPs and Peers, particularly with his counterpart the right honourable Alistair Burt, the DfID and FCO Minister for the Middle East and North Africa region, so that we could discuss in detail how DfID’s priorities and programming could support increasing religious tolerance in these fragile countries.
Lord Bates
I am very happy to do that and also to invite along my noble friend Lord Ahmad, who leads on religious freedom in these areas at the Foreign Office. Human rights are a fundamental building block of human development. We all appreciate that. Therefore, Article 18 of the universal declaration is a key element. I was looking at the Prime Minister’s words on 28 February when she spoke at a reception in Downing Street. She said:
“It is hard to comprehend that today people are still being attacked and murdered because of their Christianity. We must reaffirm our determination to stand up for the freedom of people of all religions to practice their beliefs in peace and safety”.
We stand by that.
Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)
Together the member states and the EU collectively deliver more than half the world’s official development assistance. This will not be the case when Britain leaves the European Union, yet we rate the EU as one of our best partners. It is not just about transition. Is it not about having a long-term commitment to work with allies across Europe who share the same values, including the only countries that have actually delivered 0.7%?
Lord Bates
I agree that there has got to be that essential partnership. There has got to be an essential partnership with the US as a major deliverer of international aid. We have to work with the Commonwealth, which is a major recipient and also an important partner in resolving a lot of the conflicts. We work with the Nordic Plus states in the development arena. We have to work in partnership. We have an overarching aim, whether we are in the EU or not, and that is the sustainable development goals. That is our target: the eradication of extreme poverty by 2030. We are all working towards that wherever we are.
Lord Tebbit (Con)
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, unlike some noble Lords who have spoken on this Question, I have at least as much confidence in our very good Secretary of State, Priti Patel, as I have in the bureaucrats of the European empire?
Lord Bates
I share my noble friend’s absolute confidence in our Secretary of State on these matters because she has been strong in emphasising that it is not just the amount that we contribute to overseas development that determines its effectiveness but how it is spent and focused. That is a key target and a key aim of reform, which she has avowed, not only in our department but in the UN institutions.
Lord Tomlinson (Lab)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that his view on the Secretary of State is a view on her present pronouncements about development, not on her former pronouncement that the department ought to be abolished?
Lord Bates
I think it is always best to judge politicians by their actions. When you look at what the Secretary of State is doing, what she has announced, the places she has been and the focus she has given to economic development, disability rights and family planning, in all these areas she has been at the forefront of humanitarian aid. The fact that she does so with an edge of demanding realism rather than sentimentality in approaching these things strengthens the delivery of the product.
Overseas Development Assistance
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Lord Collins of Highbury
To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they intend to consult non-governmental organisations and development aid charities regarding the commitment in their manifesto to work with like-minded countries to change the rules relating to overseas development assistance.
The Minister of State, Department for International Development (Lord Bates) (Con)
My Lords, we are consulting with civil society organisations to hear what rule changes they believe would be beneficial in helping us deliver the sustainable development goals. NGOs have been invited to share with us their thoughts and indications as to what changes might be envisaged as part of a wide consultation process.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord for that response but the question was about what the Government are thinking. In 2016, Justine Greening sought from the DAC changes to accommodate the SDGs. What more changes do this Government want? They should come clean about that and then consult properly. Does the Minister not accept that if the United Kingdom went alone on these changes it would break the international rules-based agreements we have, which would have severe consequences for international development?
Lord Bates
Of course we are not talking about going it alone. The OECD and DAC process is made up of 30 countries. It is a consensus operation and we have to work with colleagues to bring about the changes that we seek. The Secretary of State convened a meeting of 18 NGO leaders in the department last Wednesday, which I attended. It was a very productive session. The first thing it recognised was that the existing rules were not perfect. The second thing, which we are absolutely sure about, was that it was essential to preserve the primary purpose of aid; namely, economic development. That will remain our focus as we consult colleagues on the DAC, NGOs and other parties here.
Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con)
My Lords, it is often the small organisations working at grass-roots level that can really make a change and a difference to the poorest communities around the world, but they find it very hard to apply for these grants; there are often very complicated procedures to get the money. Will my noble friend please tell me what is being done to help these small organisations access funds?
Lord Bates
My noble friend is absolutely right. Small organisations often bring innovation to the process, passion and low overheads, which are deeply needed in the way that we develop aid. As part of that process, the Secretary of State has announced that we are going to launch a small charities challenge fund aimed particularly at small organisations with a turnover between £25,000 and £250,000 for accountable grants of £50,000 each. We will be making an announcement about that next week but I will certainly make sure that all Members of your Lordships’ House, who I know follow these matters closely and have good links to many small charities doing amazing work around the world, have details of that fund.
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)
My Lords, as part of this consultation will the Government publish an assessment of the impact of the changes that were made in 2016—they were indeed made to accommodate the sustainable development goals, as well as the UK priority of investment in conflict-affected and fragile states—before then asking for more?
Lord Bates
That is certainly something that we will look at once we figure out the exact routes that we are going down. We have identified a number of areas. For example, development assistance is available post-conflict to rebuild countries but when it comes to peacekeeping, only a small percentage of that budget is attributable to development assistance. When we want to help with training militaries in how to prevent sexual violence in conflict, we find difficulties in getting that element there. When we want to look at refugees providing vocational assistance here in the UK, that is deemed to be a benefit to the national economy and therefore is not allowed. So there are a few things here but the essential point, which the noble Lord is absolutely right about, is that we have to work together on this to resolve those differences with the primary purpose in mind.
Baroness Sheehan (LD)
My Lords, I would like to press further the point that the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, made. Will the Minister share with your Lordships’ House a definition of ODA that the Secretary of State will be content with, bearing in mind that she is on record as saying that she would like to see the department that she now leads abolished?
Lord Bates
She is also on record as a passionate defender of the 0.7% target. That was in the Conservative manifesto; it was secured under a coalition Government and maintained under a Conservative Government, and it is something that we are extremely proud of. The fact that we have a 0.7% commitment does not mean that everything to do with reform should stop there. We want to make sure that every single penny and pound of that is directed to the people who are in the greatest need because we cannot afford to leave them behind when there is so much need visible around the world.
Baroness Hayman (CB)
My Lords, the Minister referred to the prime aim of aid as economic development. We have discussed before in this House how economic development cannot take place without investment in health and in the empowerment and education of women. The UK is a respected global leader in many of these areas: malaria, neglected tropical diseases, maternal and child health, and the education of women and girls. Can the Minister assure the House that any changes that are made will not be to the detriment of continuing investment in the areas in which we have proved to be effective and successful?
Lord Bates
I can certainly give that assurance. In fact, health is one of the key areas in which we have been investing heavily. I know that the noble Baroness has taken a great interest in neglected tropical diseases. We announced a further £200 million for that cause, which is saving hundreds of thousands of lives, just a few months ago.
Development Aid Budget
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The Minister of State, Department for International Development (Lord Bates) (Con)
My Lords, I join other noble Lords in paying tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, for securing this debate. It has been extremely useful and one of those occasions when you look at the wealth of expertise both in and outside this House and are not quite sure whether at the end of it you are supposed to give a speech or should have been taking notes. Of course, it has been a combination of both as I have gone through this debate.
The noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, has a distinguished track record in this whole area. She outlined, rightly, the need for evidence-based analysis of what is working here. We also heard during the course of the debate from my predecessor, my noble friend Lady Verma, who left a tremendous legacy from her time as Minister. I publicly thank her for that. Many of the areas in which I now deal simply continue excellent initiatives that she began. I also join others in welcoming my noble friend Lady Sugg to the Front Bench as Whip. She will be a tremendous support because, again, she has such experience and expertise in this area.
If I were to try and answer all the questions presented to me, we would exceed the two-and-a-half hour cut-off line—perhaps even the two-and-a-half hour cut-off line for my speech. I have a limited amount of time, but I am very keen that we are able to draw on the wealth of expertise in this House. I will look for an opportunity, I hope before the recess, to continue some of these discussions we have had today.
UK aid plays a vital role in helping the world’s poorest and most vulnerable. That is both morally right and in our enlightened self-interest, as we were reminded. One of the other themes of the debate has been that the world has changed. The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, referred to that in particular. We talked about the changing nature of some of the pressures. I want to dive straight in to the ODA issue mentioned by so many. It is an area of focus.
The rules of the OECD’s Development Assistance Committee were set up some 40 years ago, when the world was a very different place. They have been changed only once in the past 40 years. That process of changing them, once, in March 2016—as the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to—took a period of four years to agree. This is a slow-moving area because the Development Assistance Committee works by consensus. We have been very keen to say that we want to share our concerns with our friends. That has literally just begun through our communication process. At this stage, I cannot give a run-down of who our friends are in these particular areas or what each of them are coming to us to say are the areas they would like to see changed and improved.
However, they have looked at particular areas such as climate change. That is something on which 40 years ago there was perhaps not the same focus so we need to look at it. Some elements of research that you can do into climate change are not ODA eligible, yet they benefit, as many have mentioned, the poorest on the planet. There is also violent extremism and countering terrorism—the new threats we face. Do the rules allow and capture all that has been done in this particular area? There is migration on a huge scale around the world, almost unprecedented in our history—certainly post-war—and that raises new challenges. So when, for example, we deploy Border Force cutters in the Mediterranean to intercept the people-traffickers who make fortunes out of other people’s misery and put their lives at risk, and when we work with the Libyan coastguard to try and improve their security and safety, are these not areas that we ought to be able to consider as part of our overall effort?
There is also trade. We talk about trade and development. The only way we are able to achieve that aspiration set out by the former archbishop of not creating dependency—referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Judd—is by trade. Look at the number of people in extreme poverty, which reduced by 50% between 1990 and 2010. What was the reason for that—was it the levels of aid? No, it was the levels of trade, so those are very important to us. That is also the reason why the Secretary of State for International Trade and the Secretary of State for International Development jointly announced that one of our ambitions is to maintain and build upon the preferential trade arrangements for the 48 countries in Africa to be able to trade into the United Kingdom tariff-free. We recognise that that is incredibly important to us.
The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, referred to the issues of monitoring. Many noble Lords referred to the level of monitoring that goes on. He referred to the possibility that there might even be an excess of monitoring in some respects. Of course, at the moment overseas aid is, in the UK, probably one of the most scrutinised of any spends that happen anywhere in the world. That is one reason the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, was right to point to the International Aid Transparency Initiative’s rating of DfID as world-class and world-leading in the way that it does aid. We have nothing to fear from transparency because that is part of the way we learn and gather information about this. I direct noble Lords to the website “devtracker”. It is a bit of a catchy name, but the Development Tracker is an incredible resource, enabling you to see exactly, in real time, what is actually happening on which programmes and who is delivering them. You can read the independent evaluation reports carried out and see how much money has been paid—as I say, in real time. These are ground-breaking methods of transparency that are recognised internationally. Of course, then we have our own quality assurance, and that has been added to a whole new—
Lord Purvis of Tweed
I do not wish to interrupt the Minister’s flow, but he has quite substantially moved on from the area of the DAC and OECD. With the greatest respect, I was waiting for him to answer the point that a number of noble Lords across the Chamber asked about the line in his party’s manifesto that, if there were no agreement within the OECD and DAC, the Government would propose unilateral action and bring forward legislation to change the criteria for ODA in the UK. All of us asked him to reflect on that and perhaps move away from it, especially in the context that he no longer has a majority in either House. This would be a good example of listening to a great deal of concern that moving unilaterally would not be in the best interests of the UK in this area.
Lord Bates
I do not want to parallel or parody debates taking place on other aspects of government policy and exiting the European Union, but I can assure the noble Lord that we have no red lines. We are still developing what the issues are that we would like to address. We began that process talking to the NGOs. I would like to continue by talking to Members of your Lordships’ House about what the issues are, citing some of the problems and talking it through with officials. Of course, then we need to present that to colleagues. So it is not a firm, baked plan, which we are demanding or otherwise we will go out on our own. We have said we are quite determined that there are some issues that need to be addressed and we want to share that with people and work together in a consensual way.
Returning to the point about examination and monitoring, of course we have our own internal quality assurance. We also have the National Audit Office. We have the Independent Commission for Aid Impact, which has been cited. The noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, asked about the CSSF. That was one of the ICAI reports that the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, referred to, where that scrutiny is beginning to happen. There is also the International Development Committee in the other place, of which the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, was a distinguished chair for 10 years. Again, we have a very good working relationship with that committee. It is rigorous, but there is a partnership because we all want the same thing—namely, to eradicate extreme poverty.
Then we have the sustainable development goals, which a number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and my noble friends Lady Verma and Lady Jenkin, referred to. They are going to introduce a whole new level of scrutiny. Again, it comes back to the point about the Development Assistance Committee. Forty years ago, we did not have the millennium development goals, never mind the sustainable development goals. Now we have these new goals that introduce whole new categories—such as beneath the ocean or peace and conflict, which the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, referred to—that we need to work on.
I was asked what the Government are doing in respect of the SDGs. We published our Agenda 2030 in March. That was the cross-government response to that. The Office for National Statistics has announced a consultation looking at the best way of producing data and statistics in these matters so that we can track our progress towards the SDG aims. It has some very important elements in it. The noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, was concerned about how those data might be connected. There is a huge new initiative taking place across the UN institutions about collecting data, particularly on the sustainable development goals—what actually works and how it should operate. That is being done by the UN Statistical Commission. We have representation on that and we will follow that, and publish routinely and regularly, in accordance with the requirements of the SDGs, how we are progressing. We will also be able to see online how other countries are progressing towards them. I think this is going to be a major step forward—to reassure the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, among others—because once we see countries’ own self-assessment of where they are lagging behind and where they are progressing, we will have an additional level of data to help us ensure that our resources are directed to those who are in greatest need.
The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, also asked why BEIS is the second-highest ODA spender. Of course, that is because the primary objective of BEIS ODA is research and innovation—to reduce poverty by generating and putting into use knowledge and technology to address development challenges and advance development for the poorest in the world. The noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, gave the example of King’s College working in partnership with the Government of Sierra Leone on Ebola. What has been achieved through this, and more widely through development, is incredible, but we still have a long way to go. We have rigorous ways of monitoring the impact and communicating the achievements.
I know that at this point the noble Lord, Lord Judd, will be flinching in his seat, but I ask him to bear with me on impact because it is leading to the subject of effectiveness. We can see that development aid is changing the lives of the world’s poorest. Just today we read about the outbreak of cholera in Yemen, and there is the World Health Organization with 1 million cholera vaccines, desperately trying to get safe access. It is true that you cannot separate the security elements from the humanitarian need in this respect. The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, referred to this as well. Without the security elements, we will not be able to get those vaccines to those who need them.
Just last week, I returned from South Sudan. I was delighted to hear the analysis and the experiences of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Truro. I saw the terrible situation there. Were it not for the World Food Programme and DfID’s contribution to that, 1.6 million people who are relying on airdrops of food, through a completely man-made conflict—this is not to do with climate change but entirely to do with the civil war which is raging on the ground—would have their lives put at risk. Therefore, to say that you can somehow separate the security dimension from the humanitarian dimension is not correct.
I will speak about other government departments. The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, referred to the Building Stability Overseas Strategy. Of course, we now have the UK aid strategy—Command Paper 9163—produced in 2015. I do not want to quote extensively from it but that is our new marching point for this and includes significant elements on how we are going to work with global peace, security and governance. I commend it to noble Lords. It says:
“All departments spending ODA will be required to put in place a clear plan to ensure that their programme design, quality assurance, approval, contracting and procurement, monitoring, reporting and evaluation processes represent international best practice”.
It is also right and absolutely fair to say that other government departments are not quite at the level of DfID at the moment. We do not want to crow too much about that because they have not been doing it for as long. My noble friend Lady Chalker is in her place. There is a long tradition and expertise in that area in government, which we want to retain. But that cannot be any reason not to aspire to the highest standards. We have said that we want all government departments that are delivering ODA to be rated either good or very good within five years. An ODA senior officials’ group now meets regularly across government to ensure that lessons are learned and we can assist other government departments in doing that.
The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, mentioned disability. Again, this is part of the SDGs and leaving no one behind, which is a key part of what we are doing. Looking again at our disability strategy is also something that the Secretary of State, Priti Patel, has made a personal passion of. We will be putting additional resources towards that.
The noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, and the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, mentioned small grants. I covered this subject in the exchanges in Questions about the small charities challenge fund.
The right reverend Prelate also spoke about what churches could be doing in this area. I will be meeting him tomorrow. Again, I turn to the example of South Sudan. When I was in South Sudan, I met Archbishop Deng—a very gracious man—the Archbishop of South Sudan and Sudan. There are 100,000 churches in South Sudan. What an incredible network that we could be using for peace and reconciliation. I also met Bishop Anthony Poggo, who I am sure is well known to the right reverend Prelate.
The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, mentioned the catalytic impact of private sector investment and the £2.5 trillion gap in private financing. We need to get much more private capital in there. Governments cannot do this alone through ODA. It needs to be through trade, private investment and, increasingly, government assistance providing a catalytic role in that.
Without doubt, UK aid is making a significant contribution to tackling the global challenges of our time. The Government agree wholeheartedly on the importance of measuring its impact so we can fully understand and continue to improve on the very significant contribution the UK is making to the world’s poorest, to stability and prosperity here and to eliminating extreme poverty by 2030. I look forward to continuing these discussions as weeks go on.