Quality and Safety of Organs Intended for Transplantation (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Adonis Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2019 Grand Committee

[Baroness Thornton]

It is not my job to say whether our discussions are ultra vires. The Constitution Committee might usefully address that issue at some point, but this Committee has already made its views quite clear to the Government during the debate on the previous two statutory instruments. I am happy to say that this matter is the Committee’s responsibility.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, does my noble friend share our concern that although we have made our views known to the Government, we have had no response? The Minister, whom we respect for the great predicament she is in this afternoon, has not been able to respond at all to the fundamental question underlying this afternoon’s proceedings of whether there is an adequate legal or moral basis for us to debate these statutory instruments when yesterday, the House of Commons—the supreme, elected body—voted specifically against no-deal preparations precisely because it did not want to see these arrangements, which it described as a Brexit “game of chicken”, put in place. Does my noble friend not think that as the Opposition, it is our job to hold the Government to account? Perhaps this debate must happen in the Chamber—as the Minister said, this is above her pay grade—but we need to be robust in asking why these statutory instruments and no-deal preparations are proceeding, as well as why £4 billion is being spent, in a situation that looks legally dubious and morally bankrupt after the Commons vote last night.

[Baroness Thornton]

Along with the noble Lords, Lord Deben and Lord Tyler, and other noble Lords, my noble friend has done rather a good job of ensuring that these issues will be taken to where they belong: the Floor of the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Manzoor]

No, my Lords, we are not talking about a gap. We are actually talking about the continuation of what we have in place at the moment. That is why we are making these contingency plans.

[Lord Adonis]

My Lords—

[Baroness Manzoor]

No, I am sorry, we have discussed these issues. Many of the same issues are coming up on all three SIs.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Adonis]

The Minister has not answered the points. That is why we keep raising them. If she provides inadequate answers, I am afraid they remain inadequate.

[Baroness Manzoor]

I am afraid that is the only answer I can give, even if it is not one that the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, feels is adequate. If there are issues that I feel I need to write to noble Lords about, I will do so, but I think I have given the best answer that is available to me.

The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, raised an important point regarding traceability. The requirement to ensure the traceability of tissues and cells, including reproductive cells, will remain. UK-licensed establishments were already using systems to ensure traceability from donor to receiver of tissues and cells before the introduction of the single European code, and in most cases the code was added to the existing system. After exit, UK-licensed establishments will be able to use the same IT systems that they are using now if they want to. The code will be removed and establishments will use the traceability system that was in place before the introduction of the single European code.

The noble Baroness asked about the powers and the instruments in relation to the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State can make changes to deal with new safety issues, and that is what the SIs will enable to happen. If the Government decided to do that, though, they would need to make new regulations which would have to have parliamentary scrutiny at that point, so he cannot do it just like that.

I restate that all the points that I have made relating to all three SIs go across the board for all of them. I hope noble Lords will appreciate that I have done my best to answer as many of the points as I could, if not all of them. I cannot go any further in terms of processes of statutory instruments and what the Committee can or cannot do, nor can I comment on the wider EU Brexit deal.

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this excellent debate. I believe in the scrutiny of legislation, and noble Lords have certainly carried that out with gusto today. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

The Question is that the Grand Committee do consider the draft Quality and Safety of Organs Intended for Transplantation (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

[Lord Adonis]

Not content.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

Not content.