Alcohol Licensing (Coronavirus) (Regulatory Easements) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Addington and Lord Hayward

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Hayward (Con)]

My Lords, I express similar support for the regulations and hope that when the final review is completed in March 2025, we move to a more permanent system of operation. I particularly welcome the support the Prime Minister gave to the extension while these issues were being considered.

I begin by pointing out that I was previously Chief Executive of the British Beer and Pub Association and sat on the other side of negotiations with the Government about the changes of the Licensing Act. I had many a discussion with the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, about not only licensing matters but security matters, which is relevant to the previous debate. I remember sitting discussing such matters with him when the bombing of late-night establishments was attempted.

I want to raise an issue that relates to temporary event notices, and which is not specifically covered by this legislation but arose earlier this summer in the context of the Lionesses’ success in the football World Cup. We should have considered this issue during consideration of the 2003 legislation. I, with others, led the application before the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, to change the interpretation of the law in 2002, when the men’s football World Cup was played in Japan and South Korea. He very sensibly said: “My original judgment was X. I now see that the circumstances have changed”, and the nation was allowed extended drinking hours for the period of the 2002 World Cup. Unfortunately, due to an oversight, the only way that temporary event notices can be extended is with the approval of Parliament. Of course, while the Lionesses were playing Parliament was not sitting, so there was no way that any temporary provision could officially be made. Fortunately, I think in most circumstances the police authorities and local councils were sensible in their application of the intended law.

Although it is outwith the purview of these regulations, when the Minister and his officials review the legislation in question, will they give consideration to circumstances which may arise when Parliament is not sitting, so that temporary event notices can easily be granted in some form or another, without the problems that arose this summer? Otherwise, I wholeheartedly support the regulations as they stand.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I also declare an interest—this seems to be the “old hands” thing—having been on the Front-Bench team which debated the original Bill in 2003. Since coming back to this issue, the concerns on both sides have not changed: alcohol, when misused, damages public health and leads to disorder and other things. But traditionally, it is our drug of choice—if you like to put it like that—and the one we use to relax in our society; it is the accepted norm. What is the best way of regulating it and making sure that it is used correctly? We also have a hospitability sector linked to it.

When I read the draft regulations, I was surprised to discover that we still have a coronavirus extension for the hospitability sector, although that makes sense when you run through what has gone on. The overall review of how this will be handled and organised in the future is the important thing—it is the elephant in the room, which is at least opaque at this point time; it is not exactly invisible. When I worked on the original legislation, I discovered that sports clubs did not have the same sort of licensing structure as pubs; they had to be dealt with separately and had been overlooked initially. I suppose that I should declare an incredibly minor interest as a non-playing member of my old rugby club.

If we are going to make this process more coherent, these regulations make some sense. But the points about off-sales and private drinking often leading to domestic violence and more health damage are also important. How will that balance be achieved in the review? That is very important. It is better to have outside control, such as when a barman or manager can literally say to somebody, “You have had too much to drink”. Surely it is preferable to have outside control and influence on somebody, rather than their sitting at home and quietly drinking themselves into oblivion and then occasionally interacting with anybody who tries to interfere with that. What is the Government’s thinking on that? Can they say a few words about that process, what is going on and their input into it? Every time we have discussed alcohol sales, those are the two things we have been trying to balance. I hope the Minister will be able to give us some idea.

To be honest, the outcome on this has a degree of cross-party support; it is not the most political of issues, but people will make ridiculous speeches, usually ranting about a problem after it has been dealt with. There is a constant balancing act. It would be helpful to the House as a whole if we could get some guidance on the Government’s thinking—and indeed that of the Labour Benches, because, let us face it, the reality means that this may well be their problem in about a year’s time.