Private Members’ Bills

Debate between Liz McInnes and David Nuttall

Wednesday 13th April 2016 Westminster Hall

[Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)]

I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall), and I am pleased that his contribution was relatively brief.

I am a relatively new Member of Parliament, and when I started, the documentary “Inside the Commons” was being filmed. When I watched it and saw the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) filibustering, I thought, “It’s editing and artistic licence. They’re showing Parliament in a particular way, but surely that’s not really how it conducts its business.” But I witnessed it at first hand at the Committee stage of a private Member’s Bill, the NHS (Amended Duties and Powers) Bill. The hon. Member for Bury North took up the whole two hours of the first session talking about the difficulties of starting at 9 o’clock in the morning and people’s perceived travel problems getting to the Committee, and the Committee stage was talked out. The hon. Member for North East Somerset gave us all manner of information about his dietary habits. We all know that he loves Cadbury’s Creme Eggs.

[Mr Nuttall]

I served on the Committee, but the Bill was abandoned by its supporters. We would have been happy to debate it day and night, but its supporters decided to give up on it.

[Liz McInnes]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman would have been happy to carry on debating it day and night, but the fact is that no meaningful debate was allowed.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith) for securing the debate, because it is vital to do something about the charade on Friday mornings. I was present when the Hospital Parking Charges (Exemption for Carers) Bill was shamefully talked out. That was an absolute disgrace, and the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) deserves an honourable mention for his part in not allowing that Bill to make progress. I was also present for the Compulsory Emergency First Aid Education (State-funded Secondary Schools) Bill. That was outrageous. I had been encouraged by constituents to be there, and as many hon. Members have said, we give up our Fridays to attend. I am a northern MP, and I give up time in my constituency to take part in discussing Bills that go absolutely nowhere.

This afternoon, I will present a petition to No. 10 Downing Street on the Criminal Driving (Justice for Victims) Bill. It is a private Member’s Bill and has no chance of being heard, so we must resort to presenting a petition with 20,000 signatures.

Male Suicide and International Men’s Day

Debate between Liz McInnes and David Nuttall

Thursday 19th November 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mr Nuttall]

I am very grateful for that intervention, because that vignette highlights a lot of the problems. The mere fact that we are holding this debate—it may not be in the main Chamber, but it is here in Westminster Hall—and are able to discuss the subject will hopefully generate some wider debate outside Parliament. It might make it just that little bit easier for the debate to take place in wider society.

As I was saying, I approached the debate today with some trepidation, because, as has just been amply demonstrated by the hon. Lady, who is chair of the all-party group on suicide and self-harm prevention, many organisations and people seem to be looking at this problem—governmental bodies, other public sector bodies, charities in the independent sector and academics—and all have greater experience than I have, but I have looked at it with fresh eyes. Part of the reason why I am here today is that I am staggered by the intransigence of the problem. Clearly, there are many people looking at it, but the reality is that the number of male suicides has remained pretty stubborn over decades. This is not a party political point. It does not matter whether there was a Conservative Government under Mrs Thatcher or a Labour Government under Mr Blair; the numbers for male suicide have stayed pretty much the same. That made me think that there is something serious going on here that is wider than just the typical argument about party politics.

I pay tribute to the charity CALM—the Campaign Against Living Miserably—because it has provided some helpful briefing and figures for this afternoon’s debate. CALM says that in 2014 more than three quarters —76%—of suicides were men. That is 4,623 deaths. It is worth repeating that suicide is the biggest single killer of men under the age of 45. For deaths registered in 2013, the last year for which the Office for National Statistics has figures, my own region—the north-west of England, in which my constituency is situated—had a male suicide rate of 21.2. That is the second highest rate in the country, second only to the north-east. The experts will be aware that the rates are invariably quoted in the statistics as a rate per 100,000 of population, so that is 21 people out of every 100,000. As always with these statistics, there is a host of caveats and technical details that could be explored, but I do not think we should let the minutiae obscure the big picture, which is that while the suicide rate in the north-west among men was 21.2, the rate among females was 6.3. A rate of 21 against a rate of 6 is a big difference indeed.

[Liz McInnes]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for talking so sensitively about this issue. I, too, am greatly concerned about male suicide, and that is why I came to this debate. He speaks very knowledgably about the rates of male suicide, but is he aware that young gay men are six times more likely to take their own life than their straight male counterparts?

[Mr Nuttall]

I have heard that statistic twice today, the first time in the Chamber, when the shadow Leader of the House made that point. I do not know whether the statistic is correct, but I am prepared to accept what the hon. Lady and the shadow Leader of the House say. I am sure that of those more than 4,000 deaths, some were gay men and some were young gay men. That may well be one of the contributing factors.

The charity CALM has set out four areas where it thinks action should be taken. First, and quite understandably, it states that there is a need for timely and accurate information. That could be applied to many things across Government. It always amazes me how long it takes for what, on the face of it, are fairly simply statistics to be collated and reach the public domain. Secondly, and again understandably, CALM says that we need to understand the reasons why people take their own life, because there is a strong element of contagion, which the hon. Member for Bridgend mentioned. Thirdly, CALM wants all local authorities to develop and implement a suicide prevention plan, and says that those that do not should be named. Fourthly, it states that if national and local suicide prevention plans are to be effective, there must be some accountability—there is no point having a plan unless something is done if that plan is not adhered to.

It is worth noting that in its own way, CALM has tried to give the issue some publicity through social media and the #BiggerIssues campaign, which is an advertising campaign to draw attention to the fact that as a society we tend to pay an inordinate amount of attention to perhaps relatively trivial topics, such as the weather and the sort of coffee we are drinking, rather than to male suicide, which is a real problem in society. The campaign has created digital posters featuring the hashtag #BiggerIssues, which were posted across the UK. Those posters changed every two hours to reflect the fact that every two hours, a man takes his own life. The campaign was run in association with the men’s grooming brand Lynx, and I think we should pay tribute to whoever it was who took that brave decision to link a men’s grooming product with the campaign. Others perhaps looked at it and thought, “The issue is a bit too touchy for us. We’ll leave that one alone.” Whoever was involved at Lynx, we should publicly thank them for being able to associate their brand with that particular campaign.

I was surprised to find that this phenomenon is not unique to this country. Right across the world and in almost every country, there is the same stark difference in the suicide rates. Lithuania, Russia, Japan, Hungary, Finland—almost everywhere we look, the picture is the same: male suicides considerably outnumber female suicides. Apparently that is not the case in China. I am not an academic; I have not spent time looking into this, but it seems to me there may be something in the fact that in one country, China, it is the other way around that may in years to come offer a solution to the problem.

We are a Parliament with different political parties, and for our own reasons we try to make party political points. When I have previously raised this issue, people immediately say, “Of course, it’s all the Government’s fault. The fact that there are lots of men committing suicide is all your Government’s fault, because you are making cuts to public services and you are cutting the NHS”—which is not true; more money is being spent on the NHS than ever before, so that argument immediately falls. Those arguments are easy to make. It is simple to throw out that it is all the Conservatives’ fault, but as I will demonstrate, the statistics—the facts—from the Office for National Statistics simply do not bear out that argument.

In the 1980s, under the Conservatives, the number of male suicides each year was somewhere between 4,000 and 5,000. It did vary a little bit—it got down as low as 4,066 in 1982 and it went up to 4,370 in 1987—but every year it was between 4,000 and 5,000. Between 1997 and 2010, under the Labour Government, the number of male suicides was somewhere between 4,000 and 5,000. Again, it varied—some years it was down, and some years it was up—but every year it was somewhere between 4,000 and 5,000. What is noticeable is that the gap between male and female suicide rates has been increasing steadily in almost every single year since 1981. At the start of this range of statistics, the male rate was a bit less than double the female rate—about 1.78 male suicides for every female suicide, I think.

Hospital Parking Charges (Exemption for Carers) Bill

Debate between Liz McInnes and David Nuttall

Friday 30th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)]

I should like to declare my support for the Bill, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Julie Cooper) on bringing it to the House today. We have had an interesting debate. It has been enlightening for me; I am not often here on Fridays, and I have been intrigued by the way in which the discussions have gone on.

My hon. Friend made a good point about the amount of money that carers save the NHS as a result of the unpaid voluntary work they do, attending hospitals, caring for friends, relatives and loved ones and relieving the pressure and stress that our support workers, nurses and doctors are under. When we talk about money resolutions and finance, we need to remember that not everything has a financial cost. We cannot put a price on everything, and the amount that carers save our NHS is priceless. It is not something we can quantify. However, I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that the amount of money that carers save our NHS is far over and above what they might bring in in car parking fees.

I am speaking from the point of view of a former NHS worker. I used to work at North Manchester general hospital, which is now part of Pennine Acute Hospitals Trust to which the hon. Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) referred. He spoke about the trust as something of an exemplar in the way that it advertised car parking to patients and visitors. Having worked there for a long time, my experience is that its policies caused a lot of confusion. Frequently, when I turned up to work, visitors asked me whether they should pay, whether I had any change for the parking machines, and whether I could help them with where they were going. Not wanting to be too critical of my ex-employer, I have to say that I do not think that Pennine Acute is a shining light when it comes to dealing with car parking for patients and visitors.

[Mr Nuttall]

I do not know when the hon. Lady left the employ of that particular trust, but it seems from its website that it has tried to simplify things by having different coloured signs for different groups—green signs for patients, blue signs for blue badge holders and pink signs for staff. It seems that it is making an effort. I am sure that the hon. Lady knows more than me whether its system is working in practice.

[Liz McInnes]

What the hon. Gentleman said was very telling. He said that he had looked at the website. Not every patient or visitor has access to the website, however. I agree that the system is clear on the website, but it is not clear in reality. When someone turns up with a sick relative or a distressed patient, they do not have time to go through the colour coding. Pennine Acute could improve its signage, but that is not why we are here, or why we are talking about this Bill.

The hon. Gentleman asked how long I had worked at the hospital. I started at North Manchester general in 1987, and I was there when hospital car parking charges were first introduced. I remember the disquiet that was caused to staff, who have always had to pay those charges. Many people do not realise that staff have to pay car parking charges at hospitals.

[Mr Nuttall]

I mentioned it.

[Liz McInnes]

I appreciate that, but it always comes as a surprise to the wider public to hear that staff have to pay to park at their own place of work. I am sure that there would be an uproar if such charges were introduced for our exclusive car park facilities in this place. I know that the staff’s objections to having to pay to park at their place of work have been ignored. We have been protesting about it for many, many years. However, I am not here to talk about staff; I just wanted to make people aware that that practice still goes on. I have always seen it as a tax on coming to work.

We are here to talk about carers. I want to use Pennine Acute as an example. Most recently, it has engaged a private parking company, the income of which comes solely from administering fines to people who have parked incorrectly or who have not paid the right amount of money. The business of this private parking company depends on people contravening parking regulations; it actually wants people to contravene parking regulations, because that is the only way that it gets any income.

When I worked at the hospital, I was a workplace rep for Unite the union. I dealt with a lot of staff who were very, very distressed about the letters they had received from this company, demanding a fine that had to be paid by a certain day, and if they did not pay it by that day, the fine would go up. They were given the opportunity to appeal. If the appeal was not successful, some people found that they had to pay an inflated fine because they had had the temerity to appeal.

With regard to my hon. Friend’s private Member’s Bill, my main concern is about carers. What would happen to them if they were to get one of those bills? At least members of staff, if they are in a trade union, can go to a rep and get some help to deal with the situation. I worry about private parking contractors, because they exist solely to make money out of people. Exempting carers from car parking charges would bring much needed clarity to the matter. It would stop these exploitative companies from making money out of them.