Duties of Customs

Debate between Lady Hermon and Anna Soubry

Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 20th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

I could not agree with the hon. Gentleman more. That is what the people need to understand now: there is this third option. There is this other way of getting a Brexit. We would be out of the European Union, so we would have satisfied the 52% of voters on that, but we would deliver what everybody wants, which is the best possible Brexit that is in the interests of everybody in this country, with the economy, jobs and prosperity right at its heart. This would solve the problem that Northern Ireland faces and that Ireland faces, because we would keep the customs union.

[Lady Hermon]

I am deeply disquieted by the fact that prominent Conservative Members are seemingly in favour of no deal as we leave the EU, because today’s Belfast Telegraph carries a report saying that republican organisations in Northern Ireland and Sinn Féin are hoping that there is a hard Brexit. They are exploiting that idea to then campaign for a border poll to try to rip Northern Ireland away from the rest of the UK. That is extremely concerning to me, as a Unionist.

[Anna Soubry]

I listen to the wise words of the hon. Lady, as she, more than many, knows exactly the serious consequences of getting this wrong. It is not just about trade and the economy in Northern Ireland; it is also about the politics. I take the point that there is a huge danger of abandoning the customs union and going for some ghastly hard border, which plays right into the hands of Sinn Féin, the IRA and all the rest of them.

I am not going to speak for much longer, because I agree with so much of what has been said by the three Members I particularly picked out and by the hon. Lady. I am old enough to remember my father having a car and when we asked what had happened with it and why did we not have it, we were told, “It is down in the garage and we are waiting for a part. It hasn’t cleared customs.” Some other Members will remember that, too. The terrible problem with much of this debate is that so many people are so much younger than I am and they have never experienced this. People like me are old enough to remember the days of having to have our suitcases opened at customs control, but this is lost on huge swathes of our population. Yet here we are actually beginning to plan for a return to those bad, dark days when we were the sick man of Europe.

So we need to stay in the customs union for the sake of our economy and because it will deliver what the people want: we will get on with this and we will make progress. We can take it, because it is there on a shelf and we can take it off the shelf. We may have to tweak it here and there but it will get us on and it will deliver Brexit, and it will ensure that we can then look at these huge other domestic problems we face.

I was going to say something else, but I have no doubt completely forgotten it. It matters not, though, because these are important matters. [Interruption.] Ah, I know what it is. As I said the other day, history will record the profound irony, which cannot be right, that the overwhelming majority of right hon. and hon. Members in this place agree that we should be in the customs union and the single market. The only reason why that is not even on the table anymore—this is an uncomfortable truth—is because, I fear, my party is in hock to 30 to 35 hard, ideologically driven Brexiteers. The British people will not thank my party unless we stand up for business and for the economy. We must deliver Brexit but also make sure that we deliver for the British people.

Bombardier: Job Losses (East Belfast)

Debate between Lady Hermon and Anna Soubry

Tuesday 1st March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Lady Hermon]

Given that the Chancellor was keen to praise the deal the British Government achieved with the Chinese Government—this new trading arrangement we are going to have with China—can the Minister reassure workers employed by Bombardier that the Government will make this issue a priority during trade missions to China, India and elsewhere? Will she say something not only about the investment made in the past, but about where exactly this Government’s priority will lie as they take forward their new arrangements with China and with India?

[Anna Soubry]

The hon. Lady snuck India in there as well, so she gives me a number of points to answer. I can tell her that this Government absolutely recognise the huge importance of the aerospace sector, which is why we have put in as much money as we have, matched of course by the sector itself. It is important that we understand how vital it is that we continue to trade with China, but we are also hugely alert to the fact that China is slowly beginning to develop its own aerospace industry. In the past, it has bought its aeroplanes from other countries, but it is no great surprise that the Chinese are looking to the great success of our aerospace industry. The fear is that they will seek to replicate it—I shall put it in that way. The hon. Lady can be assured that we will always make it clear that United Kingdom industry, especially manufacturing, is incredibly important to the success of this Government, because it is so important to the success of our economy. If we do not have a good economy, we cannot have the sort of taxes we need to make sure we have the sort of services we need. Let us be in no doubt that aerospace is incredibly important to us, which, as I say, is why we have done the work and made the investment.

My hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East made a good point about UKTI, and we will continue to promote Northern Ireland in all the work we do in promoting the United Kingdom. We will work to support the company’s export campaigns, and UK Export Finance also stands ready to support C Series aircraft sales. He will remember that we specifically talked about whether or not we could do some more work in making the point that the wings had been made in the United Kingdom, in Belfast. We should seize upon that, use that great technology and the huge respect those wings rightly have, and do—I was going to say a much better job, but I would rightly be reprimanded for that—some real work on making the point that they are made in Belfast. There is some more work we can do there with UKTI, and I am committed to taking that up.

While we are on the C Series passenger jet programme, let me say that it is a beautiful aircraft. I was given a model of one, although I almost did not need one because we can see that it is such a lovely aircraft. The company has reaffirmed its commitment to the C Series passenger jet programme and Belfast’s critical role in its delivery. As we know, on 17 February Air Canada signed a letter of intent for up to 75 C Series aircraft, which is a positive development for the programme. Along with the Northern Ireland Executive, we are fully committed to Bombardier’s C Series aircraft programme. We have jointly supported the wing development by committing £113.37 million of repayable launch investment, and we stand ready to provide export promotion and finance to support it. We will continue to work with Bombardier to support its sales campaigns, and, as I say, there is an awful lot more we can do by way of UKTI to take full advantage of this.

[Anna Soubry]

I am really very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I do not think I knew that, and it concerns me hugely, as I am sure it will concern everybody on the Opposition Benches. There is something particularly cruel about an apprentice losing their job, especially as we know that these are highly skilled jobs. I am more than happy to take that matter away. As the hon. Gentleman will see, I have three people sitting in the Box taking notes, so we will definitely take that away, and if there is anything I can do to help, I absolutely will do it.

[Lady Hermon]

There is something that the Minister can do. The Enterprise Bill comes back to the House next week. There is a clause in that Bill on apprenticeships, which was wrongly designated as exclusively English. When the Minister of State was winding up on Second Reading, he said that there would be a national advertising campaign for the apprenticeships that were mentioned in the Bill, but Northern Ireland was excluded. The Minister should look at that clause and ensure that it is altered before it goes through its final stages next week.

[Anna Soubry]

I certainly undertake to take a look at it, but I am not promising to be able to alter it. None the less, I will take away this apprenticeship query. I am sure that the Northern Ireland Executive and Bombardier will be well onto this matter, but if there is anything more that we can do, we will try to do it. The thought of youngsters finding their apprenticeships cut short concerns us all, so I absolutely give that undertaking.

As I come to a close, may I address some of the specific points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East? As we have a little time, let me say that I was very sad that I had to shorten my visit to Northern Ireland yesterday. Obviously, I had to come back for the steel debate. One day, I will go to the constituency of the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley). I keep promising to go, but I never end up there. I was very sorry that I had to cancel that side of the visit yesterday, but we will do it another time. I really wanted to go to Bombardier, because that visit is incredibly important to me.

My hon. Friend talked about London City airport. Apparently, as it is a planning decision, I cannot comment on it, which is a pity. However, I do know that the C Series is particularly suited to that type of airport: it is a quiet aircraft; it is the right size; it carries the right number of passengers, 100 to 150; and it is perfectly suited to those international city-to-city journeys. We had a conversation as to whether the C Series would be involved in a new route from City airport to John F Kennedy international airport. Of course I have no opinion on that whatsoever, but I know that my hon. Friend does.

Military Covenant

Debate between Lady Hermon and Anna Soubry

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

All I can say is that I do not see how on earth it can help if no such Ministers came along, because the more people who get themselves involved the better for everybody concerned, but that is just my view.

[Lady Hermon]

May I, as a member of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, correct the record? Two Ministers from the Executive came before the Committee. If my memory serves me correctly, they were the then Health Minister, Edwin Poots, and his colleague the then Social Development Minister, Nelson McCausland.

[Anna Soubry]

I am more than happy for the record to be corrected. I am delighted that they came along. I had dealings with Edwin Poots, and if I may say so, I always found him very good in his role as Health Minister in Northern Ireland.

In Northern Ireland, we are beginning to see good delivery on the covenant. That was demonstrated by the fantastic support at Newtownards, where 25,000 people attended the Northern Ireland regional Armed Forces day event, and a further 10,000 lined the parade route through the town.

Lord Ashcroft’s report has been mentioned. “The Veterans’ Transition Review” highlighted that the majority of former service personnel go on to lead very successful civilian lives, begin new careers and enjoy good health. However, it also acknowledged that the vast amount of support available to former service personnel throughout the UK can always be improved. The Government have now published our response to Lord Ashcroft’s report. As ever, I pay tribute to him for the huge amount of work he did in compiling it. It provides coherent guidance on how to improve the transition process, and it has been hugely helpful.

For those who are not familiar with the detail of the report, I confirm that 20 of Lord Ashcroft’s recommendations are already in place in full or in part, 11 are being developed and another eight are being investigated. Specifically on Northern Ireland, he recommended that armed forces champions should be appointed to allow service leavers and veterans to claim their entitlements without fearing for their personal security. I must say that we have found no evidence that previous service in the armed forces was in any way preventing our ex-service personnel from accessing the services provided by Northern Ireland Departments.

I am delighted to confirm that from April 2015, each of what I believe are called super-councils—the new local authorities—will nominate both a non-elected official and a councillor to be members of the Reserve Forces and Cadets Association for Northern Ireland. That must be an indication that progress is being made. The councillor will also act as the local veterans champion. They will manage local sensitivities, where they arise, and enable political action at the appropriate level to ensure that cases are progressed satisfactorily. That is really good progress. We want all local authorities across the United Kingdom to have a local veterans champion, so Northern Ireland is leading the way. That is another example of the covenant in action.

There are three recommendations in Lord Ashcroft’s report that we are not taking forward. One of those is Northern Ireland-focused. We simply do not agree—although we are always listening—with his view that section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 should be amended. Some hon. Members have said that, from time to time, section 75 has held back the extension of the covenant measures to Northern Ireland, but we do not think that is the case. However, as I have said, I am going to go over to Northern Ireland and speak to people.

When we last discussed these matters, we reported that some 93% of the covenant measures—this is how we judge whether the covenant is beginning to work—applied in Northern Ireland and that 7% were yet to be met. We are making progress. In June this year, when he was the Minister of State in the Northern Ireland Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan) updated the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee and advised it that

“practically all of the outstanding covenant measures now apply, or will soon do so, in Northern Ireland.”

It is particularly pleasing to note that the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee has endorsed the Government’s view that there is no need for section 75 to be amended. In its report of July 2013, the Committee stated that it was

“reassured that the Northern Ireland equality framework does not create a greater barrier to implementation of the Covenant in Northern Ireland than elsewhere in the UK. It is important this is understood by those involved in the delivery of services to the Armed Forces Community.”

I have no doubt that everyone in the Chamber will share our sincere hope that those reassurances will be communicated throughout Northern Ireland. Indeed, much of this debate will be communicated throughout Northern Ireland, so that everybody understands what the covenant is all about, which is ensuring that there is no disadvantage.

Despite some concerns, the covenant is not only alive and well in Northern Ireland, but is going from strength to strength. That is testimony to the widespread commitment to the armed forces covenant across communities. Despite the difficulties of Northern Ireland’s unique history and political situation, we have seen real achievements in its progress.

In addition to the veterans champions, a bid supporting the legacy co-ordinator’s post within the UDR and Royal Irish Aftercare Service, of which we have heard much, received £50,000 from the £35 million of LIBOR funding that we have made available. That funding meant that the role was extended for two years, offering support and advice to statutory and voluntary organisations and individuals covering a range of issues. The Ministry of Defence fully recognises the medical care needs of veterans, which is why it funds measures such as the aftercare service to work alongside the NHS in delivering high-quality support and care. The aftercare service’s continuing collaboration with 38 (Irish) Brigade and the Reserve Forces and Cadets Association has led to the identification of possible research studies in Northern Ireland on future armed forces covenant activities and the needs and concerns of the veteran community.

Cross-border Health Care (England and Wales)

Debate between Lady Hermon and Anna Soubry

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Anna Soubry)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) on securing this debate. He has raised a number of important topics—notably, the difficulties of people resident in England who are registered with a local GP whose service is deemed to be in Wales, even though the surgery may be in England. I am fully aware of my hon. Friend’s keen interest in local health matters affecting his constituents and his tireless work to support Hereford hospital. The whole House will agree that we would all expect good quality patient care, regardless of which part of the country we live in.

As my hon. Friend knows, I am very sympathetic to the concerns he has raised about English residents who are unable to access English hospital care because they are technically registered with a Welsh GP practice—even when, as I said, for a small number of patients, that GP surgery is physically situated in England.

I am told by my officials that the NHS services that any patient can access, and their NHS rights, are determined by their GP’s country of registration. As we have heard, that is formulated through protocol between NHS England and the Welsh Assembly; it means that, legally, a person has to be registered with an English GP practice to access English NHS services.

I am very concerned that despite an English border patient’s right to register with a GP practice on either side of the border, that is not always possible in practice. I recognise that, in rural communities, patients often do not feel a choice is available, given that the most accessible practice is a Welsh one. I also recognise that many people are registered with a local GP in England but the main practice is over the border in Wales. Those people may not want to change their GP practice. Why indeed should they? We could understand why they might, because in Wales people unfortunately do not get some of the excellent access to services that we enjoy in England. I am very concerned about this. I am told by NHS England that it has asked its legal advisers to review their earlier advice on the protocol signed between it and the Welsh Government with reference to the specific concerns that Ministers—that is, me—and the Welsh Secretary have raised.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

It is very kind of the Minister to take an intervention at this stage. Will she kindly confirm that when she invites her officials to look at this issue they will take up the suggestion made by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and look at the valuable lessons that have been learned in Northern Ireland about the useful co-operation across a land frontier with the Republic of Ireland and a key, integral part of the United Kingdom—Northern Ireland?

[Anna Soubry]

I am grateful for that intervention and for the wise words of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who, as ever, brings a great depth of experience to these matters. Yes, we will certainly take that on board.

All this came about because of a meeting between me and my officials, the Welsh Secretary and my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper). As a result of that meeting, I have asked NHS England to work locally with GP practices in the border counties to review their practice boundaries with the aim of providing additional choice of GPs to those who do not currently have it. I am keen that all English patients are able to access an English GP if they wish or that they can register with a Welsh GP if that is their choice and they are aware of the impact of that decision. I have also asked NHS England to review the protocol as it currently stands.

I have asked the Welsh Government to review their policy on out-of-area treatments to consider an exception for English residents—specifically, that GPs operating from branch surgeries in England should be exempt from the requirement to seek prior approval for English resident patients to be referred to hospitals in England. These are all matters of concern not only to constituents of my hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire but to others. We have heard about that from my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) and my hon. Friend the Member for North Herefordshire (Bill Wiggin), and of course I know of the concerns of my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean.

I am informed that since the meeting with the Welsh Secretary and my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean, NHS England has had several further meetings with colleagues in the Welsh Government and local health boards based in Wales to discuss these concerns so that they can be addressed. There have been constructive discussions with Aneurin Bevan local health board, which has confirmed that it will undertake a review of the application of its policy on out-of-area treatment. I understand from NHS England that work will continue on this review over the next few months, and I will of course keep everybody fully informed and up to date on any progress.