Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Bill

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 20th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Losing a child is the most harrowing experience that could ever happen to any parent. As a father of four myself, I know personally that it is every mother and father’s worst fear, and one that never goes away. I am conscious that many Members present have personal experience of this subject. I am grateful for their incredible courage in highlighting the issue, for all their work in Parliament to help others in similar circumstances, and for their participation in today’s debate. We had a general debate on baby loss during Baby Loss Awareness Week last week, and I am pleased that we have time to debate this important and sensitive issue again today, so soon after such an important week in the calendar.

I particularly thank my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Will Quince)—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”]—for so successfully bringing this issue to the fore with his private Member’s Bill in the previous Session, which served as the catalyst for the progress we have made in reaching this point. I thank the all-party groups that have been involved, particularly the one on baby loss. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Banbury (Victoria Prentis) and for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach) for all their work.

I also thank the all-party group for children who need palliative care, and charities such as Child Bereavement UK, Bliss, Together for Short Lives and Jack’s Rainbow, and all the other charitable organisations that do important work on this issue, not only to champion bereaved parents but to raise awareness. Of course, I thank the parents themselves, including from my constituency Annika and James Dowson, who first drew my attention to how baby loss is managed in many hospitals and how so much more could be done to help with the initial stages of grief and loss.

I am delighted that this is one of those issues for which there is cross-party support. Such consensus is right and important, and I hope it enables us to make positive progress with the Bill. I have been working closely with the excellent Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Margot James), with her Department and officials, and with my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester, to create a Bill that is fair and beneficial to those who will need to rely on it. I am grateful for the Government’s support.

The successful passage of the Bill will ensure that we are able to put in place a new provision and level of protection so that those who find themselves in this awful situation in future know that, at a minimum, they will be entitled to time off work to grieve, without their suffering any detriment. We know that there are some brilliant, supportive and flexible employers out there, and I commend them for the support that they provide to their employees when these circumstances occur. But we also know that some employers operate at the other end of the spectrum, and it is those employers we need to consider when putting this legislation in place.

[Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for taking forward the excellent work begun by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Will Quince) in the previous Session. He rightly says that most employers would grant leave under such terrible circumstances, were it asked for. Is not the point of the Bill that no parent should, in almost unimaginably horrible and difficult circumstances, have to make such a request and fear what the answer might be?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of course, most employers do the right thing, working with the people affected so that they get whatever support and time off they need, and maintaining their levels of pay through that period of time.

During our consultations on the Bill, our excellent parliamentary digital engagement team facilitated a Facebook debate, in which I took part. Some charities and the campaign organisation, 38 Degrees, also provided us with a number of examples of employers and line managers who offered inappropriate levels of support. For instance, a parent told us that their employer— an NHS body—offered them only five days’ leave following the sudden passing of their youngest daughter, with any additional time having to be taken as annual leave. Brendan from Newcastle told us that he did not get any paid leave and was sacked nine months later. Gillian from Milton Keynes did not receive the appropriate support when she lost her daughter 13 years ago. She told us that the measures proposed in the Bill would have meant that she and her partner could have grieved together, and provided help and support for their other children.

No employee should even have to think about being at work when they desperately need some time away to grieve for a lost child. Yet according to a Rainbow Trust survey, around 9% of parents said that their employer was not at all supportive. I ask those employers to consider their position. What is the point of having a parent in the workplace who has had no time off to grieve? What effect do those employers think it has on the bereaved parents’ attitude to their workplace and, indeed, on other people in the workplace? I strongly recommend that all employers and managers read the excellent ACAS guidelines on bereavement, which clearly detail best practice for financial and emotional support.

I will now set out the detail of the Bill. The Bill will provide two weeks’ leave for all employees who lose a child below the age of 18. This will be a day-one right. Those key points are established on the face of the Bill, which deliberately leaves some other details to regulations. This leave will be protected and a person should suffer no form of detriment in the event that they find themselves having to take the leave. Crucially, the Bill will give parents an important choice, allowing them to make a decision on what is best for their needs, when they might otherwise be reliant on the good will of their employer.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I am very, very happy to say that it has never happened to me, and I grieve for all those to whom it has happened. I have heard of other cases where young men and women have been killed, and sometimes the parents do not want to stop working. They do not have to stop working if they feel that continuing may be better in helping them to get over the loss.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Hollinrake]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The key to the Bill is that it retains that flexibility. There should be a discussion and negotiation, and the employer should provide the employee with support in order to help that person to decide what is best for them. It may be that the leave is taken later, rather than straightaway. People have different needs when dealing with their loss, as they do so in different ways and at different times.

The Bill also deals with paid leave. Leave will be paid, as a minimum, at the statutory rate—currently £140.98 a week or 90% of average weekly earnings where that is lower—for those who have fulfilled the qualifying period of 26 weeks’ service with the same employer the week before the date of their child’s passing away.

[Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friends the Members for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) and for Colchester (Will Quince) on all their work on the Bill. I wish it well. I have just one question. Will these rights also cover adoptive parents?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. We have left some details out of the Bill to allow more time for consultation on topics just like that one. Clearly the legislation cannot just be about biological parents. Adoptive parents should get the same benefits that the Bill provides. There are other such circumstances to discuss, so we want the maximum possible opportunity for consultation and submission of evidence, and for debate on these matters so that we ensure that we get the Bill right.

Leave will be paid at the statutory rate for those who fulfil the qualifying period of 26 weeks’ service the week before the child’s passing away. The Bill allows the rate to be set in regulations so that it can be uprated regularly in the normal way, but that is the level at which I envisage the rate will be set. That mirrors existing family leave and pay provisions, such as paternity leave, shared parental leave, adoption leave, and maternity leave after the first six weeks. That strikes a fair balance between the rights of the employee and a workable framework for the employer, but it is clearly the minimum we would expect the employer to provide.

My hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) talked about flexibility, and that is my next point. It is widely recognised that grief affects people in different ways and at different times, and that there are no set rules for how and when to grieve. A level of flexibility over when to take this leave will allow an employee to take it at a time that best suits them, within a fixed period following the bereavement.

Hon. Members will have different opinions about how long that period should be, and there is clearly a balance to be struck between the individual needs of a bereaved employee and the employer’s need for a level of certainty around absences from work so that they can manage those effectively. With that in mind, the Bill provides for the window to be set in regulations, with a minimum of eight weeks within which these two weeks of leave must be taken.

[Will Quince (Colchester) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind and generous words. I know we had a conversation about this in drafting the Bill, and I welcome the 56 days, but we know that fathers, in particular, often bottle up grief and can have issues further down the line, so I would ask that we consider extending the period to six months. I appreciate the concerns about employers, but that would give parents flexibility.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and there are so many different circumstances—in certain circumstances, a funeral may be delayed. We need to consider that issue, and I am keen to hear views on it.

Eligibility is another area we need to have a debate on. In terms of my current thinking on who is considered to be a parent, the Government and I did quite a lot of consultation over the summer. It was apparent early on that the issue of who is a parent is key to ensuring the right people are reached and to the success of the Bill.

[Jo Churchill (Bury St Edmunds) (Con)]

Along with answering the question of who is a parent, will my hon. Friend please tell me whether the Bill will address the issue of who is an employee, in view of the Taylor report? Those who work on zero-hours contracts, those who are self-employed and others will need that same space for grieving, as my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Will Quince) pointed out in his very powerful article in The Times. Not everybody is in the same situation. Was that considered as well?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

My hon. Friend makes two good points in one—that self-employed people are treated differently in relation to various aspects of maternity and paternity leave, and that the Taylor review is considering some of these issues. We should consider this issue in the framework of the Taylor review. We should see what recommendations come from that review and then perhaps look to change these provisions if there is consensus on that.

An obvious starting point on eligibility is for the provision to apply to the biological parents of the child who has passed away. However, it is unrealistic to suggest that all family units look exactly the same; that is too simplistic an approach. As a society, we have clearly moved on from mum, dad and 2.4 children. Children now live in many different situations, with caring responsibilities divided up in different ways, depending on different life circumstances. A child could have a number of parental figures in their life, all of whom are equally attached to them and, therefore, potentially equally devastated if they pass away.

I will not be so bold as to say that pinning down a wider definition of “parent” is easy. I do not expect we will do that today or even during the passage of the Bill. We need to take considered opinion on the issue and to allow further debate on it. Therefore, in the Bill’s later stages, I propose that we take time for consideration and the submission of evidence, that we debate this point widely, and that we bring forward the necessary regulations, as provided for in the Bill, once that consideration has been undertaken.

First, we need to ensure that we put in place a clear framework so that everyone clearly understands whether the entitlement to leave applies under these circumstances. That will take a little more time. I am very conscious that many different issues can and will form part of the overall debate during the Bill’s passage. We are likely to hear about the desire for parity between the self-employed and the employed, and questions about what other measures can be put in place to support parents at such a devastating time. These issues, and no doubt many more, will form the basis for a wider debate about what can and should be done in this area.

I hope that hon. Members on both sides of the House share my desire to ensure that the Bill succeeds and makes quick progress. As we all know, a certain fragility accompanies the private Member’s Bill process. I would like to navigate that as best and as quickly as I can, with the help and support of Members across the House. Collectively, we have the opportunity to effect real change. It is our duty to ensure that those who will need to rely on this provision are able to do so at the earliest opportunity.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Hollinrake]

With the leave of the House, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to conclude the debate. Please tell me if I am likely to run out of time, as that is the last thing I want to do.

I thank the Minister and the shadow Minister for their very fine closing speeches. I also thank Members across the House for their consensus view that we need to provide more support for grieving parents. I can think of no more important issue that we might ever deal with in this Chamber. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) for the work that she has done on this, and for her very good point about how we need to keep this leave flexible because people will need to take it at different times.

My hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Victoria Prentis) spoke about managing grief. I have no idea how one would manage grief in this circumstance, but that is clearly something she is able to do. There is no way in the world that any of us can imagine what she has been through.

The taxpayer is picking up the cost of this, but I cannot imagine that any taxpayer would ever have a problem with doing that in this case. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach), who talked about employers. The Bill is a signal to employers about the minimum that they should offer. They should really offer more time off, at full pay, and they should carry the cost of that because of the good will that it will generate and the sensitivity required in such situations. It is absolutely key for any employer to offer such support.

My hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Will Quince) spoke of the difference we hope to make when we come into this Chamber. I was struck by the fact that parents in my constituency who have suffered such tragedies have gone out to make a difference. I have mentioned Annika and James Dowson, who raised money for a bereavement suite at Scarborough hospital. Luke and Ruthie Heron suffered a loss at the crucial stage when a miscarriage becomes a stillbirth, and they want that to be changed to ensure that a child is formally recognised as such. Making a difference after a loss—directing their energies into something more positive—is a tremendous thing for people to do.

My hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) mentioned that I was able to take forward Claudia’s law when we debated the previous Bill on this subject. Perhaps we should call this “Will’s Bill”; I commend it to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time; to stand committed to a Public Bill Committee (Standing Order No. 63).