Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and Greg Hands

Thursday 2nd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Greg Hands]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Indo-Pacific is a vital part of the world for the UK and forms the centrepiece of our strategy going forward diplomatically and on trading ties. He is right that the Republic of Korea will play a vital role in that. The recently signed Downing Street accord with Korea outlines the breadth and depth of the ongoing relationship. We look forward to the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership coming into effect later this year, and we look forward to seeing if the Republic of Korea will apply.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I am sure the right hon. Member for Maldon (Sir John Whittingdale) does a very effective job in South Korea. I visited myself with the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee a couple of years ago and saw those opportunities. However, there is some concern about transparency around the use of trade envoys. Will the Minister confirm to the House that under this Government no trade envoy has ever demanded and been given the use of a house for their exclusive use?

[Greg Hands]

The hon. Gentleman has slightly jumped the gun, as the next question on the Order Paper relates to trade envoys. May I say how proud we are of the cross-party trade envoy programme, which I think he will hear about in a moment? We think they do an excellent, good value-for-money job for the United Kingdom in promoting trade in a number of key markets.

Draft Warm Home Discount (England and Wales) Regulations 2022

Debate between Kevin Brennan and Greg Hands

Wednesday 15th June 2022 General Committees

[Greg Hands]

I thank the Opposition and welcome their support in principle for these important measures, which will expand the scheme and deliver more money to people, in particular over the course of this coming winter. It is important that we do not lose sight of the centrality and importance of what the Government are doing, on top of the other bill-support measures that we have introduced—to which I will refer, because they are relevant to some of the questions I was asked.

The hon. Member for Southampton, Test always gives such proposals a forensic eye. He correctly said that this is money not from the Government, but from other bill payers He was absolutely right and we should not lose sight of that. His proposal, if I understood it correctly, was to expand the numbers, which the hon. Member for Cardiff West also said. It is worth pointing out, however, that expanding the numbers of those who receive the benefit would add to the effective cost, and that would be passed on by the supplier to those who are paying. We should not lose sight of that. He calls for more people to be given it, and I am open to that. If he wants to send me a proposal of how he thinks the warm home discount would look under Labour, perhaps with some costings and the possible impact on the other bill payers, I am happy to look at it.

[Kevin Brennan]

The Minister makes a reasonable point, as ever, but his civil servants could work up such a proposal for him. However, what was the reason for the policy choice he made to cover only 2.79 million households, when the Government’s own figures state that 3.2 million households are in fuel poverty?

[Greg Hands]

I am coming on to that in a moment, but let us not get away from the increase that we have just made: the 2.2 million people who currently qualify will rise to 2.8 million people. That is a significant expansion of the scheme. The hon. Member for Southampton, Test was right that going from £14 to £19 is no mean increase for other bill payers, and we should not lose sight of the wider impact of the scheme on other bill payers, but with all such things, it is a question of getting the balance right.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about the automatic discount. One of the great things about its automatic nature is that it greatly reduces the administrative costs. When something becomes automatic, rather than on application, we reduce costs greatly. The recipients we reach will be more vulnerable households and, within the group, the households will be more vulnerable than those in the previous broader group. That is an important takeaway: more households, and the ones we reach are likely to be more vulnerable than under the previous scheme. The new scheme will be less bureaucratic and have lower costs, targeting more people who are in real need, compared with the existing scheme.

The hon. Member for Southampton, Test said that 50% of fuel-poor people are on means-tested benefit, but that figure is actually 69%. That, too, is an important consideration. I think he asked about—he implied—some sort of appeals process for those who might feel aggrieved with the automatic nature of the process. We will provide a digital helpline service, working closely with consumer organisations such as Citizens Advice and National Energy Action, to ensure that we put the best arrangement in place to support those who feel that the scheme has, for example, not adequately assessed their energy costs or some element of their particular household energy circumstances.

The hon. Gentleman asked about looking into the SOLR process to guarantee warm home discount rebates. He is right: the suppliers of last resort are not obliged to take on the warm home discount obligation of a failed supplier. However, we have had more than 20 of these SOLR processes—particularly in the course of the last year and especially last autumn. All suppliers of last resort have so far honoured their obligation in the past. We would expect them to continue to do so. Ofgem takes into account when appointing a supplier of last resort whether the new supplier intends to honour the obligation of the warm home discount.

I will turn now to the points raised by the hon. Member for Cardiff West on the impact on disabled customers. For the broader group, it is currently an application process, and making it an automatic process is likely to overall benefit disabled consumers. It is also worth pointing out the new support that has been announced. Disabled people will be supported with a cost of living payment coming up this autumn. There will be £150 on top of the other arrangements. They could well be receiving the new £650 grant for the lowest-income households. We are already here talking about an £800 extra for many disabled customers. It is characteristic of the hon. Member for Cardiff West to drill and dig deep into the numbers.

[Kevin Brennan]

Before the Minister moves on, can I pick up on what he just said about disabled customers? In the explanatory notes, the Government say that fewer households in which a person is in receipt of a disability benefit will receive a rebate. My question was: if fewer households in receipt of disability benefit will receive a rebate, what is the effect of the measures he is suggesting in this new scheme on people who will not receive a rebate anymore?

[Greg Hands]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I repeat what I said earlier. More vulnerable households will be receiving this benefit. Within that group, it will be the most vulnerable households that receive it. I think that is a really important thing to take away. I am happy to write to the hon. Gentleman on the specific numbers, if we have them, of disabled recipients currently in the broader group compared with what we think it might be in core group 2.

The hon. Gentleman has looked at the numbers and compared 2.8 million with around 3 million. We might have a debate on rounding, but I do not think it is fundamentally wrong to say somewhere around 3 million and then for the actual number to be around 2.8 million. I do not think that I was being disingenuous. What is important here is not his missing 200,000, but the fact that the Government are adding 600,000 people to the number of recipients, so it is rising from 2.2 million to 2.8 million. The hon. Gentleman may say there is a missing 200,000, but I say there is an extra 600,000 who are getting it. If the hon. Gentleman wants to propose an alternative costed scheme to me, I would be happy to look at it.

[Kevin Brennan]

I think that is slightly unfair of the Minister. I am only quoting the figure that was in the Government’s own White Paper and is at the beginning of their impact assessment and explanatory notes, which were both presented to the Committee today. It is not my figure; it is his.

[Greg Hands]

We may just disagree on rounding. It would not be the first time that 2.8 has been rounded up to being around 3. We can agree to differ. My point is that there are not 200,000 missing people; there are 600,000 extra people.