European Agenda on Security

Kelvin Hopkins Excerpts

Tuesday 19th April 2016 General Committees

[James Brokenshire]

As I have indicated, the internal security strategy, which was renewed by member states in June of last year, sets out a clear agenda. It contains much of what is in the Commission’s communication, although the Council very much leads on it: the strategy is being implemented by the Council and that implementation is being led by COSI. We welcome that, as it ensures that member states are clearly in the driving seat of the agenda’s implementation and will get regular feedback on it. As has been indicated, a Europol counter-terrorism centre was established in January of this year, in response to a call from the Justice and Home Affairs Ministers at Council on 20 November. That new centre, which acts as a platform for member states to increase information sharing, is a good example of how the agenda is being implemented.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

The right hon. Member for Ashford drew attention to the fact that temporary internal border controls have been erected in a number of EU countries inside the Schengen area. Does the Minister agree that we are seeing the breakdown of Schengen and those temporary internal border controls are likely to remain permanently?

[James Brokenshire]

Clearly, the UK is not part of Schengen and therefore the actions that are being taken by individual EU member states in concordance with the arrangements underpinning Schengen are a matter for them. The UK’s focus is on seeing a strong external Schengen border and ensuring that, although we are outside Schengen, we support other EU member states through the mechanisms of Frontex and other bodies. We will continue to work with other member states to assist them in securing the external EU border, given the direct relevance of that to our own security.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

Going beyond that, does the Minister agree that it would actually be sensible for countries inside Schengen to impose permanent border controls? That would frustrate the movement of terrorists and serious criminals across borders and make the job of the police and whoever much easier.

[James Brokenshire]

That is a matter for the EU member states that are part of Schengen. Our focus is on better communication of criminal record information. Indeed, I commented on the second-generation Schengen information system. We must ensure that data are put on that system so we can benefit from them at our border and have better intelligence and information on people who may wish to come to the UK. The Government have sought to underline that practical co-operation to get better data sharing and, in so doing, enhance our own domestic security.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

rose—

[The Chair]

I call—

[The Chair]

Order. I can only call those who are standing. Only one Member was standing at that moment, and that was Kelvin Hopkins.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I apologise to my hon. Friend. Fortunately, we are not in Schengen and we take our borders seriously—but perhaps not seriously enough. There have been reports this week that people enter Britain clandestinely via beaches using rubber dinghies across the North sea. Does the Minister not think that we ought to have stronger border controls and a bigger border force to ensure that that sort of thing does not happen?

[James Brokenshire]

The Government take their border security responsibilities seriously. We check 100% of scheduled passengers arriving at the border. Every year, millions of passengers pass through the border in that way. That is why I made the point about having better data at the border to assist those checks through our partnerships and co-operation with other EU member states. In respect of the general maritime sector, we have invested in intelligence and a field intelligence officers network, which has resulted in the successful interdiction of suspect vessels, disruption of people smugglers and significant seizures of class A drugs. We must work with our European partners as well. The action that the French, Dutch or Belgian Governments may take in stopping vessels leaving their shores is a powerful way of ensuring our own domestic security and underlines the need for good, practical co-operation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kelvin Hopkins]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Turner, as a fellow member of the European Scrutiny Committee.

Britain was very wise not to join the Schengen agreement and to retain a significant degree of border control. What has happened recently on the continent of Europe demonstrates that point. The porous border between France and Belgium was clearly an assistance to those who committed the outrages in Paris and in Brussels. One would hope that there is a move towards restoring more effective border constraints within the European Union. Regrettably, some countries have already put up barbed wire fences, which is a hostile act, but if border controls had been tighter, there would not necessarily have been such a problem.

I think there are still problems with border controls in Britain, as I have said to the Minister. If everyone was required to have biometric passports and everyone leaving Britain as well as entering it was required to be checked at borders, we would have more of a handle on movements, which would be beneficial. About six years ago, I was a member of the team from the European Scrutiny Committee who visited Frontex in Warsaw. It was clear that the Frontex official was very nervous about talking about anything that could threaten the shibboleth of free movement. That shibboleth is now looking a bit tattered. Frontex did not have any resources of their own, nor a border force of their own, and in theory they were the administrators, not the enforcers. The current situation is much more worrying.

When will there be a requirement that everyone in Britain has a biometric passport and that all those who leave and enter are properly checked at borders? Even when we travel on holiday, checks should be made to make sure that we are not carrying dangerous weapons and so on in our cars. That may mean that we spend longer at borders, but if that is the price that we must pay for security, I accept that. The Government will have to move in that direction if and when—we hope that it will not ever happen again—we have further outrages. Also, we should not forget criminality. The automatic guns that are used on the streets now are quite terrifying and we should make sure that they are under serious control.

The majority of the population are very concerned about such matters. A Government of any colour would in future be required to ensure that our borders were properly protected and to encourage fellow European Union members to strengthen their border controls between member states. Those are my thoughts; I hope the Minister will take some of them on board.