Return of Kings

Debate between Karen Bradley and Greg Mulholland

Thursday 4th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley]

The hon. Gentleman conjures up quite an image—I think I will leave it at that!

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

Such grotesque misogynist and homophobic views are not masculine—they are a perversion of masculinity and are cowardly. Does the Minister welcome initiatives by the National Union of Students and student unions—including in Leeds—to train bar staff to spot signs of sexual harassment? We must stamp out sexual harassment in all our society.

[Karen Bradley]

I would be very interested in learning more about what the hon. Gentleman says, as that is exactly the kind of initiative that we need to ensure that it is clear that no woman can ever be guilty of inciting her own rape. Rape is committed by the perpetrators, and they are the only people who are responsible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Karen Bradley and Greg Mulholland

Monday 7th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

Human trafficking is an abhorrent crime, and I warmly welcome the Modern Slavery Bill. Will the Home Secretary listen carefully to the suggestions from UNICEF that it is important to make child trafficking a particularly serious offence with particularly severe penalties?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Karen Bradley)]

The Modern Slavery Bill introduces the stiffest penalty of life imprisonment for anyone convicted of the offences listed in the Bill, and that includes anyone committing those offences to a child. I am determined that we do not get into a situation where the defence has further arguments it can put forward by arguing over the age or possible age of a child which might mean the perpetrator of this heinous crime not being found guilty and not being convicted and receiving life imprisonment. I am convinced that the offences as listed cover the child exploitation cases that have been raised. I am also determined to bring this Bill forward in this Session so that we can convict people.

The Future of Pubs

Debate between Karen Bradley and Greg Mulholland

Thursday 9th December 2010 Westminster Hall

[Karen Bradley]

I thank my hon. Friend, and I note the points that he has made. My own personal experience of pub companies has perhaps not been favourable. However, I fully accept that they have a place and a role, as do brewers, and it is important that we have the pub industry working in a way that supports all types of pubs.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

I thank my hon. Friend very warmly for taking over this debate from me at short notice. Does she think it striking that small pub companies and indeed small breweries are doing exceptionally well and opening pubs, while the largest pub companies, which have very different business models that have been a cause of concern for the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, the previous Government and this Government, are in trouble, in debt and having to get rid of pubs every week?

[Karen Bradley]

My hon. Friend makes a valid and important point. That issue is part of the debate—again, we should not over-generalise and say that all pubcos and all brewers are bad. They are not bad; they are doing a job in difficult economic times. However, it is clear that the smaller ones are perhaps having more success than the bigger ones.

I would now like to explain what is so unique about a British pub. Pub closures are an issue that affects every single Member in this House; every constituency is affected by it. Running a pub is unlike any other business. It is a way of life, not a job. You live on site, and your home is a public house; people come into your home at all hours of the day and night, and expect to be welcomed into your home. Landlords—I apologise for using that generic term, and I want to make it clear that I mean landlords and landladies—have a civic responsibility to provide the heart of the community, and it should not be surprising to anyone in this country that the longest running TV programme in Britain, which today celebrates 50 years on our screens, is based, and has always been based, around the community pub.

Landlords have a responsibility to look after their customers, both in the pub and when they leave the pub. There are very few other businesses where the retailer can be held responsible for the behaviour of customers after they have left the premises. We do not often see a situation in which a supermarket gets into trouble if a customer uses a product that they have bought at the supermarket and then, let us say, disposes of it as litter; the supermarket is not held responsible. However, the pub landlord is held responsible when the customer leaves and engages in antisocial behaviour. Landlords also have a duty to the local community, to work with residents and authorities, such as the police, to ensure good behaviour. In my view, however, the most unique element of the pub business and one of the reasons why I think we are seeing so many pubs struggling is that no two pubs are the same, because pubs are absolutely dependent on the building in which they are located.

--- Later in debate ---

[Karen Bradley]

I am coming to exactly that point. The margin on beer is the pubco’s other source of income. When my family bought out their beer tie last year, the pubco from which they bought the tie told them that the average additional amount that it charged per barrel under the tie was £185. A 36-gallon barrel of Carling Black Label sold under the tie was £369, compared to a free trade price of £227. Imagine us allowing any other industry to disregard free-market pricing so blatantly.

Pubcos have clearly accepted that many pubs are closing. That is not in their interests, so they try to help landlords who are struggling, which is undoubtedly a laudable aim, but they do so either by over-managing or by giving with one hand and taking with the other. For example, they might install monitoring equipment, ostensibly to help landlords see what is selling well and what is failing to sell, but the equipment is then used to establish whether the landlord is buying out of tie. The monitoring equipment sees how much beer is travelling from the cellar to the pump; the pubco then says, “That is more than you are buying from us. You must therefore be buying out of tie,” perhaps forgetting that it is in all our interests for the pipes to be cleaned regularly, which involves liquids other than beer going through them. The feeling—I accept that some of this is anecdotal—is that it is “them and us”, and that the landlord is guilty until proven innocent. The two parties should be working together to run a successful pub for the sake of the community, but instead they are fighting each other.

[Greg Mulholland]

I thank my hon. Friend for her generosity in giving way again. As we have not had a meeting recently, she might not be aware that both the all-party save the pub group and the all-party group on beer recently received a copy of a letter from the Fair Pint campaign to Enterprise Inns that raises serious issues about the Brulines system and Enterprise Inns’ use of that equipment. It is important to put that on the record. We await with interest developments in that case.

[Karen Bradley]

I was not aware of that letter, so I thank my hon. Friend for raising that issue. I look forward to reading it.

A pubco area manager might also suggest that a landlord adopt a practice that has worked elsewhere, such as showing live football. However, a one-size-fits-all approach does not work. Pubs are all different. Just because one pub succeeds in selling more beer after installing equipment to show live football, it does not mean that a neighbouring pub will do so as well, and it must be borne in mind that under leasehold agreements, the landlord is responsible for buying all the equipment, fixtures and fittings and entering into an arrangement with the sports provider. Landlords can therefore be left with significant outgoings and future liabilities, but no extra revenue. If they do make extra sales, their rent will be reviewed and increased the following year.