Dormant Betting Accounts

Debate between Julian Knight and Kelvin Hopkins

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Westminster Hall

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I will try to live up to your flattery—it may have been a compliment, but I feel flattered.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan) on securing this debate. I want to call him my hon. Friend, because he is a friend. Although he is not a party political friend, we are both members of the Select Committee on Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs and we have spent many happy hours discussing matters on that Committee. The hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) made another excellent speech. I agree with both speeches in their entirety, but I will share a few thoughts of my own.

The hon. Member for Inverclyde is seeking effective Government action to address dormant betting accounts, which is a matter of great seriousness. He has, not for the first time, raised the issue of problem gambling—compulsive or addictive gambling—about which I, too, have been concerned for many years. I sympathise with his view. I am, of course, old enough to remember the first betting shops opening in the 1960s; later in that decade the first UK inland casino, Caesars Palace, opened in my Luton North constituency. There has since been progressive relaxation of regulations governing gambling establishments, the use of fruit machines in places of entertainment, and so on.

The last Labour Government were pressed by the gambling industry to allow the opening of many mega casinos across the country, which I and many others in my party opposed, and the proposal was largely seen off by the House of Lords. But that Government made the installation of fixed odds betting terminals possible. I think I was the first person to use the term “crack cocaine of gambling” in the Chamber to describe FOBTs, although I did not coin the phrase.

I occasionally gambled moderately in my youth. I bet a shilling each way on a horse or two, which shows how old I am. One of my dearest friends, sadly now deceased, wisely observed that gambling is a pleasure for which he usually had to pay. We would do rather better if we all had that attitude. However, that sensible attitude is not given to all gamblers. The opportunities and temptations to gamble dangerously have increased over the decades, and gambling addiction is now an enormous social problem. We need Government action and legislation to reduce harmful gambling, and I do not accept the spurious notion that freedom means that the state should not involve itself in such matters. The state has a duty to help protect us from danger, as with alcohol and other things.

[Julian Knight]

Will the hon. Gentleman enlighten us as to what other prohibitions he would like to see introduced?

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I will address some of them later, but I will not be specific. I have only been in my job for a few days, and I have yet to be fully briefed on where my party stands on this matter, so I have to be careful—I suspect that I would go further than my party might like—but I hope to persuade my party to pursue proper action. I will not specify that action today but, so long as I am in this job, I will seek to persuade my party.

The notion of freedom is overplayed. We were the last country to make wearing a seatbelt compulsory in cars and, of course, a lot of people died because they did not wear their seatbelt. We all started wearing seatbelts after it became compulsory, and hundreds of lives have since been saved every year. That is just one of many examples where the state intervenes to protect us from ourselves and to make us more sensible than we would otherwise be. Most of us are sensible, but some people are not and require a little encouragement from the law.

Fixed odds betting terminals are, of course, responsible for much of the most problematic gambling in our communities. As gambling has been progressively relaxed, we have seen the problems increase. FOBTs continue to cause immense damage to people’s lives, destroying families and driving some of our poorest people into penury and massive debt.

Today, we are discussing what should be done with the considerable sums left in dormant betting accounts and suggesting practical ways of using those sums for beneficial social purposes. One suggestion is to find appropriate ways of using the moneys to help support problem gamblers, and detoxing is one way in which they could be helped. There should be a suitable public agency—here we go, perhaps my left-wing views are coming out now—or public fund to which these moneys could be transferred with appropriate safeguards. If all dormant betting accounts were required by law to be declared and specified in the accounts of gambling companies each year, we would know how much those accounts were worth. We could then decide what to do with them. The sums might be very small, and it might not be worth doing anything with them because the administration would be too expensive, but like the hon. Members for Inverclyde and for North Ayrshire and Arran, I suspect that the sums will be considerable—they will be in the many millions and possibly even billions.

The 2010 Department for Culture, Media and Sport report by the former right hon. Member for Bath, Don Foster, who has now been elevated to the other place, suggested that new bodies should not be created. Although I applaud his good work, I beg to differ. A publicly accountable body that operates transparently could provide a useful and secure home for such dormant account funds. Former ownership could be registered with all necessary and available details so that if the moneys were ever claimed, they could be returned to the rightful owners, but many owners will have forgotten or lost the money, or died or whatever. Considerable sums could be collected and used for beneficial public purposes. Support for sporting activities, especially for the young, would be another obvious use. No one would lose, and claims by rightful former account owners would be honoured.

[Julian Knight]

The hon. Gentleman says that no one would lose, but surely if money is taken away from companies, the employees and the shareholders lose?

[Kelvin Hopkins]

Well, yes, profits might be dented a bit, but I doubt that employees would lose, especially if they were properly represented by trade unions, as many of them are. I am frequently lobbied by members of my own union about their jobs in local casinos. It is possible that profits might be affected by the interest earned on such accounts, but the money could be used for good social ends rather than being wasted through lost opportunity costs.

Legislation would be required, of course, to facilitate such a system and require bookmakers and others to release the funds, but I see no downside for the public in what I suggest. I hope that these thoughts take hold at least within my own party, and hopefully with the Minister too, who I know is socially concerned. I hope that she, like me and the Scottish National party Members, is concerned about the damage caused to many ordinary people by dangerous gambling. I do not wish to say any more. Perhaps in another debate I might branch out rather further into my interventionist approach to policies to make people’s lives better and safer.

Regional Airports

Debate between Julian Knight and Kelvin Hopkins

Tuesday 2nd February 2016 Westminster Hall

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, but my scheme is rather different from HS2. It is a lot cheaper, more convenient and can be done much more quickly. I am suggesting, as I suggested in a debate some time last year, that we link Birmingham Snow Hill to London. It currently operates to Marylebone, and trains could go to Paddington, too, but electrifying and upgrading the line could provide a rapid, 125 mph service from the centre of Birmingham to the centre of London without changing trains because it could be linked to Crossrail at the southern end. A little track work and electrification would cost no more than £1 billion, according to my railway engineer friends who advise me on such things. A link to the southern end of Crossrail would mean that trains could go both to Heathrow direct and to the City of London, so people could go from the centre of Birmingham to the centre of London. The existing west coast main line, which serves Birmingham airport, links through to Leamington Spa on the Birmingham Snow Hill line, so one could get a direct electrified train non-stop from Birmingham airport to the City of London using Crossrail.

Of course, Birmingham airport could effectively become a satellite, or even a hub, to share the load with Heathrow, because a one-hour service direct from airport centre to airport centre using the Birmingham Snow Hill line would make a real difference to airport capacity and could help to fill the spare capacity at Birmingham. As the hon. Member for Redditch (Karen Lumley) said, Birmingham airport could be expanded further. I am suggesting something that could be done relatively quickly and cheaply and that would service the people of Birmingham and the people of the City of London while increasing the usage of Birmingham airport by passengers coming from the south-east and London. I hope the Minister recognises that as a real possibility.

[Julian Knight]

I am the Member of Parliament for a constituency that neighbours Birmingham airport, and devolution and the idea of devo-APD have been discussed. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that potentially devolving APD to airports such as Birmingham, and to authorities such as the West Midlands combined authority, could be a real benefit and bonus to regional airports?

[Kelvin Hopkins]

The hon. Gentleman has made his point, and I will not comment because I am concerned about passenger capacity and have not given any thought to his point.

An electrified, non-stop service from Birmingham airport to the City of London without changing trains would make a real difference to the attractiveness of Birmingham to travellers from London and the south-east, and it could provide a direct, one-hour, 125 mph electrified train from airport to airport. Birmingham and Heathrow could effectively serve as a hub, or as hub satellites to each other. Luton airport is doing very well and is going to expand massively over time, but my proposal could be done very quickly. We could see a tremendous benefit to the regions, and particularly to Birmingham airport.